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Re: [Pali] could someone please help with some pali words

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  • nina van gorkom
    Dear Rett, I also enjoyed your explanations, a good way of reviewing things, Nina.
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 2, 2004
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      Dear Rett,
      I also enjoyed your explanations, a good way of reviewing things,
      Nina.
      op 02-09-2004 16:24 schreef rett op rett@...:

      > In any case, feel free to keep posting and asking. I don't think
      > people consider it a burden. These questions are exactly what the
      > group is for... right guys??? :-)
    • junet9876
      what a nice thing to say. and thanks for all the explanation. it sounded like a breeze for you.
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 3, 2004
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        what a nice thing to say. and thanks for all the explanation. it
        sounded like a breeze for you.

        >
        > In any case, feel free to keep posting and asking. I don't think
        > people consider it a burden. These questions are exactly what the
        > group is for... right guys??? :-)
        >
        > Hope this helps,
        >
        > /Rett
      • rett
        ... Thank you, Bhante, for this explanation. Reading it, it occurred to me that combining a formal explanation of the word with a typical canonical context
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 4, 2004
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          Bhante Sujato wrote:

          >
          >pajaaya is the locative form of pajaa (generation). Pajaa is formed
          >from the stem 'ja' (birth) with the prefix 'pa', here meaning
          >something like 'forth'. Pajaa are those who have been born forth, ie
          >living beings, humans (and non-humans?). Compare 'pajaapati',
          >the 'Lord of Creation', a Vedic deity. A common passage, from the
          >Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta:
          >
          >'sadevake loke samaarake sabrahmake, sassamanabraahmaniyaa pajaaya
          >sadevamanussaaya'
          >
          >'In this world with its deities, its maras, and its brahmas, in this
          >generation with its monks and priests, its princes and people.'
          >
          >happy pali-ing

          Thank you, Bhante, for this explanation. Reading it, it occurred to
          me that combining a formal explanation of the word with a typical
          canonical context like you have done above is a very helpful way to
          construct an answer. I'd even call it a model answer. My pali-ing has
          indeed just become happier :-)

          Junet wrote:

          >thanks for all the explanation. it
          >sounded like a breeze for you.

          Maybe so, but I still needed the help above, even if now I think I
          ought to have instantly recognized a feminine -aa stem in locative. I
          have a long way left to go.

          I remember being stumped by exactly the sorts of puzzling forms that
          you are describing. At the time it felt insurmountable, but I am sure
          that you'll pass this plateau and soon find these forms much easier.
          Then something new that is difficult will come along :-) But whatever
          you do, don't give up because it might appear hopeless at times. You
          will find youself making leaps, and there is a lot of help to be had
          here for everyone.

          best regards

          /Rett
        • junet9876
          yes, thank you too, to bhante sujato. i am starting to think its easier to just sit and watch the breath. i find pali requires too much brain usage. pali
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 4, 2004
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            yes, thank you too, to bhante sujato.

            i am starting to think its easier to just sit and watch the breath. i
            find pali requires too much brain usage. pali grammar is very similar
            to japanese grammar, maybe even more complicated, and i never liked
            japanese grammar. too many conjugations.

            june

            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rett <rett@t...> wrote:
            >
            > Bhante Sujato wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >pajaaya is the locative form of pajaa (generation). Pajaa is formed
            > >from the stem 'ja' (birth) with the prefix 'pa', here meaning
            > >something like 'forth'. Pajaa are those who have been born forth,
            ie
            > >living beings, humans (and non-humans?). Compare 'pajaapati',
            > >the 'Lord of Creation', a Vedic deity. A common passage, from the
            > >Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta:
            > >
            > >'sadevake loke samaarake sabrahmake, sassamanabraahmaniyaa pajaaya
            > >sadevamanussaaya'
            > >
            > >'In this world with its deities, its maras, and its brahmas, in
            this
            > >generation with its monks and priests, its princes and people.'
            > >
            > >happy pali-ing
            >
            > Thank you, Bhante, for this explanation. Reading it, it occurred to
            > me that combining a formal explanation of the word with a typical
            > canonical context like you have done above is a very helpful way to
            > construct an answer. I'd even call it a model answer. My pali-ing
            has
            > indeed just become happier :-)
            >
            > Junet wrote:
            >
            > >thanks for all the explanation. it
            > >sounded like a breeze for you.
            >
            > Maybe so, but I still needed the help above, even if now I think I
            > ought to have instantly recognized a feminine -aa stem in locative.
            I
            > have a long way left to go.
            >
            > I remember being stumped by exactly the sorts of puzzling forms
            that
            > you are describing. At the time it felt insurmountable, but I am
            sure
            > that you'll pass this plateau and soon find these forms much
            easier.
            > Then something new that is difficult will come along :-) But
            whatever
            > you do, don't give up because it might appear hopeless at times.
            You
            > will find youself making leaps, and there is a lot of help to be
            had
            > here for everyone.
            >
            > best regards
            >
            > /Rett
          • Bhante Sujato
            ... breath. i ... hello Junet My teacher, Ajahn Brahm, said that the first time you go over the Pali books with all the grammar it seems impossible. The second
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 5, 2004
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              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "junet9876" <junet9876@y...> wrote:
              > i am starting to think its easier to just sit and watch the
              breath. i
              > find pali requires too much brain usage.


              hello Junet

              My teacher, Ajahn Brahm, said that the first time you go over the
              Pali books with all the grammar it seems impossible. The second time
              it starts to make a bit of sense. The third time you wonder what the
              problem was.

              I've been both studying Pali and watching the breath for over ten
              years as a monk now, and trust me, the breath is much harder,
              precisely because it requires, not brain, but heart.

              I think it's one of the great shames in Buddhism sometimes that
              there is an artificial opposition set up between study and practice,
              when in fact they should support each other. It always seems to me
              that when there is a balance and harmony between pariyatti and
              patipatti this will create the most lasting and secure grounds for
              what's really important - pativedha.

              never say die

              Bhante Sujato
            • rjkjp1
              ... practice, ... Dear venerable Sujato and June, There is a short article here about studying Pali here.
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 5, 2004
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                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Bhante Sujato" <sujato@d...> wrote:
                > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "junet9876" <junet9876@y...> wrote:
                > > i am starting to think its easier to just sit and watch the
                > breath. i
                > > find pali requires too much brain usage.
                >
                >

                >
                > I think it's one of the great shames in Buddhism sometimes that
                > there is an artificial opposition set up between study and
                practice,
                > when in fact they should support each other. It always seems to me
                > that when there is a balance and harmony between pariyatti and
                > patipatti this will create the most lasting and secure grounds for
                > what's really important - pativedha.
                >
                >_________________
                Dear venerable Sujato and June,
                There is a short article here about studying Pali here.
                http://www.vipassana.info/should_the_use_of_pali_be_eschew.htm
              • junet9876
                dear Bhante Sujato, i thought your name sounds familiar. didnt you give a talk on the structure of buddhist scriptures some time ago? actually i dont have
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 5, 2004
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                  dear Bhante Sujato,

                  i thought your name sounds familiar. didnt you give a talk on the
                  structure of buddhist scriptures some time ago?

                  actually i dont have anything against study (studying the dhamma,
                  that is). i love reading the suttas, they put me at ease. sometimes
                  when it's too hard to sit, i just get out the suttas to read, or
                  listen to some dhamma talk when i get sick of reading. and because
                  english translations often vary, i do think some knowledge of pali
                  will be helpful. i think i may have sounded like i planned to
                  completely give up pali, actually it was just a passing mood. though
                  i probably wont get into all the different kinds of tenses (vocative,
                  nominative, etc), but i think i will familiarize myself with some
                  pali, not to become specialized in it, but just enough to better
                  understand the suttas.

                  as for people who study without practice, i dont have anything
                  against them either...i myself wouldnt study without practice but i
                  think study is better than nothing.

                  actually i think we can meditate while we study. just keep some
                  awareness on the breath at the same time, right? its just lately i
                  have an urge to go to some secluded place to practice meditation.
                  i'll be careful, as people warn me its dangerous. but i think you
                  know how it is, right? when all else fails lower your
                  standards...hehe. before i sit to meditate, i say, ok, i'm going to
                  sit for an hour and a half. and then twenty minutes go by, and i
                  already want to get up. so...yeah. but theres something about it, i'm
                  just so attracted to the meditative life.

                  thank you for talking to me. you sound very knowledgable. you're
                  right, a parallel is good, you need some study to support your
                  practice, otherwise, we wont know what we're doing. im just sick of
                  thinking lately i think. because thats what ive been doing the past
                  20 years or so, so i need a break.

                  i love ajahn brahm. i start to like meditation because of him. its
                  become so peaceful and enjoyable. otherwise its always been a drag to
                  meditate.

                  do i talk too much? i also plan to stop using the computer soon, its
                  going to happen anytime now. its just so hard because i think its
                  become so much a part of my life.

                  nice talking to you!

                  june



                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Bhante Sujato" <sujato@d...> wrote:
                  > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "junet9876" <junet9876@y...> wrote:
                  > > i am starting to think its easier to just sit and watch the
                  > breath. i
                  > > find pali requires too much brain usage.
                  >
                  >
                  > hello Junet
                  >
                  > My teacher, Ajahn Brahm, said that the first time you go over the
                  > Pali books with all the grammar it seems impossible. The second
                  time
                  > it starts to make a bit of sense. The third time you wonder what
                  the
                  > problem was.
                  >
                  > I've been both studying Pali and watching the breath for over ten
                  > years as a monk now, and trust me, the breath is much harder,
                  > precisely because it requires, not brain, but heart.
                  >
                  > I think it's one of the great shames in Buddhism sometimes that
                  > there is an artificial opposition set up between study and
                  practice,
                  > when in fact they should support each other. It always seems to me
                  > that when there is a balance and harmony between pariyatti and
                  > patipatti this will create the most lasting and secure grounds for
                  > what's really important - pativedha.
                  >
                  > never say die
                  >
                  > Bhante Sujato
                • junet9876
                  i get lazy to post, but i always say thank you in my heart to everyone who sends me stuff or helps with my questions. thanks for the article, rjkjp1, i wont
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 5, 2004
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                    i get lazy to post, but i always say thank you in my heart to
                    everyone who sends me stuff or helps with my questions.

                    thanks for the article, rjkjp1, i wont give up pali.

                    june


                    > >_________________
                    > Dear venerable Sujato and June,
                    > There is a short article here about studying Pali here.
                    > http://www.vipassana.info/should_the_use_of_pali_be_eschew.htm
                  • cheangoo
                    Hello Bhante, I see you have come into this group to share your wisdom and practice. It is a wonderful group and will benefit vastly from your comments. I
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 6, 2004
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                      Hello Bhante,

                      I see you have come into this group to share your wisdom and
                      practice. It is a wonderful group and will benefit vastly from your
                      comments. I fully see what you mean about the difficulty of
                      watching the breath (involving the heart) compared with learning
                      Pali (involving the thinking mind). I also count Ajahn Brahm as my
                      primary teacher. But I also acknowledge you as an influential
                      second teacher. I am now in Cleveland, Ohio spending a few weeks
                      with my son. Tonight I shall be taking an overnight Greyhound to
                      Newark to spend the next 5 days in personal retreat at bodhi
                      monastery. Hopefully I should arrive in time to attend one of
                      Bhikkhu Bodhi's weekly sutta discussions based on the Majjhima
                      Nikaya.

                      When shall we see you again in Penang?

                      With best wishes and respect in the Dhamma,
                      KhaikCheang Oo

                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Bhante Sujato" <sujato@d...> wrote:
                      > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "junet9876" <junet9876@y...> wrote:
                      > > i am starting to think its easier to just sit and watch the
                      > breath. i
                      > > find pali requires too much brain usage.
                      >
                      >
                      > hello Junet
                      >
                      > My teacher, Ajahn Brahm, said that the first time you go over the
                      > Pali books with all the grammar it seems impossible. The second
                      time
                      > it starts to make a bit of sense. The third time you wonder what
                      the
                      > problem was.
                      >
                      > I've been both studying Pali and watching the breath for over ten
                      > years as a monk now, and trust me, the breath is much harder,
                      > precisely because it requires, not brain, but heart.
                      >
                      > I think it's one of the great shames in Buddhism sometimes that
                      > there is an artificial opposition set up between study and
                      practice,
                      > when in fact they should support each other. It always seems to me
                      > that when there is a balance and harmony between pariyatti and
                      > patipatti this will create the most lasting and secure grounds for
                      > what's really important - pativedha.
                      >
                      > never say die
                      >
                      > Bhante Sujato
                    • nina van gorkom
                      Venerable Bhante, Dear Robert, I like the article Robert gave the link of. I agree with Bhante that just study is not enough, it must serve the purpose of
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 6, 2004
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                        Venerable Bhante, Dear Robert,
                        I like the article Robert gave the link of. I agree with Bhante that just
                        study is not enough, it must serve the purpose of developing right
                        understanding, going on to pativedha. Even when we are engrossed in details
                        of the Pali language we still should have our goal in mind.
                        Nina.
                        op 05-09-2004 23:55 schreef rjkjp1 op rjkjp1@...:

                        Bh: >> I think it's one of the great shames in Buddhism sometimes that
                        >> there is an artificial opposition set up between study and
                        > practice,
                        >> when in fact they should support each other. It always seems to me
                        >> that when there is a balance and harmony between pariyatti and
                        >> patipatti this will create the most lasting and secure grounds for
                        >> what's really important - pativedha.
                        >
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