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Re: PTS Books - Abbreviations

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  • Derek
    Phra Pesala, ... You re welcome. ... What are these two not listed ones? I always think of there being 15 books in the Khuddaka Nikaya. I see that Access to
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 16, 2004
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      Phra Pesala,

      > Thanks for the link.

      You're welcome.

      > Netti = Nettikappakara.na (not listed)
      > P.tk = Petakopadesa (not listed)

      What are these two not listed ones? I always think of there being 15
      books in the Khuddaka Nikaya. I see that Access to Insight mentions
      them as being "only included the Burmese edition of the Tipitaka,"
      which seems mysterious to me. It also says that the MilindapaƱha is
      in the same category.

      Derek.
    • Frank Kuan
      I wonder if someone can give me a definitive authoritative ruling on this. Different buddhists seem to translate piti and sukkha differently. I had always
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 27, 2004
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        I wonder if someone can give me a definitive authoritative ruling on this.

        Different buddhists seem to translate piti and sukkha differently. I had always thought piti was mental pleasure, and sukkha was a physical based pleasure. For example, my buddhist dictionary and visuddhimagga give these 2 examples to differentiate between piti and sukkha:


        How 5 jhana factors (jhananga) drop out with successively higher jhanas

        (not to be confused with "5 factored concentration to be developed")

        4 jhanas

        1

        2

        3

        4

        Directed thought (vitakka): laying hold of initial thought. Fixing consciousness on object

        X







        Sustained thought (vicara): discursive thinking, mind roaming

        X







        Rapture (piti): mental pleasure, like man dying of thirst who sees a spring from a distance

        X

        X





        Joy (sukkha): physical pleasure, like man dying of thirst tasting the water from spring

        X

        X

        X



        Equanimity (ekagatta): one pointedness of mind, stillness

        X

        X

        X

        X


        So according to those 2 sources, sukkha is the more refined kind of pleasure, with a physical basis rather than just a purely mentally conjured joy. Yet different buddhist english translations I read seem to sometimes define piti and sukkha opposite from my understanding.

        In terms of pali, what were the common usages for piti and sukkha, and how exactly did the Buddha mean those terms to mean in a buddhist context?

        -fk










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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • rett
        ... Have you read Bhante Gunaratana s book on the Jhanas? It has sections discussing piti and sukha: http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/jhanas/jhanas03.htm The
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 28, 2004
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          >
          >In terms of pali, what were the common usages for piti and sukkha,
          >and how exactly did the Buddha mean those terms to mean in a
          >buddhist context?
          >

          Have you read Bhante Gunaratana's book on the Jhanas? It has sections
          discussing piti and sukha:
          http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/jhanas/jhanas03.htm

          The fundamental category difference he takes up is that piti is a
          vedanaa, while sukha is a sankhaara. From his description there I
          wouldn't say that one is mentally and the other physically based.

          I'd also be interested in any observations people might have about
          the first part of your question. To find common usages it might be
          necessary to look at sanskrit equivalents, since there's so much more
          secular literature there.

          Your question seems to be asked from two different directions: on the
          one hand you want a definitive ruling. For that you just need to find
          and believe the orthodox opinion in the Abhidhamma. On the other hand
          you wish to empirically study the terms in natural contexts. These
          two approaches might collide, but it sounds like a very interesting
          study.

          best regards,

          /Rett
        • junet9876
          hi, i heard from someone (i think it was ajahn brahm) that you cant separate sukha and piti. it is only when one has disappeared during one of the higher
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 31, 2004
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            hi,

            i heard from someone (i think it was ajahn brahm) that you cant
            separate sukha and piti. it is only when one has disappeared during one
            of the higher jhanas that you can recognized which is which.

            i think i know what i am saying, though i am not sure if i am making any
            sense.

            Take Care.
            june



            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Frank Kuan <fcckuan@y...> wrote:
            >
            > I wonder if someone can give me a definitive authoritative ruling on
            this.
            >
            > Different buddhists seem to translate piti and sukkha differently. I had
            always thought piti was mental pleasure, and sukkha was a physical
            based pleasure. For example, my buddhist dictionary and
            visuddhimagga give these 2 examples to differentiate between piti and
            sukkha:
            >
            >
            > How 5 jhana factors (jhananga) drop out with successively higher
            jhanas
            >
            > (not to be confused with "5 factored concentration to be developed")
            >
            > 4 jhanas
            >
            > 1
            >
            > 2
            >
            > 3
            >
            > 4
            >
            > Directed thought (vitakka): laying hold of initial thought. Fixing
            consciousness on object
            >
            > X
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Sustained thought (vicara): discursive thinking, mind roaming
            >
            > X
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Rapture (piti): mental pleasure, like man dying of thirst who sees a
            spring from a distance
            >
            > X
            >
            > X
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Joy (sukkha): physical pleasure, like man dying of thirst tasting the
            water from spring
            >
            > X
            >
            > X
            >
            > X
            >
            >
            >
            > Equanimity (ekagatta): one pointedness of mind, stillness
            >
            > X
            >
            > X
            >
            > X
            >
            > X
            >
            >
            > So according to those 2 sources, sukkha is the more refined kind of
            pleasure, with a physical basis rather than just a purely mentally
            conjured joy. Yet different buddhist english translations I read seem to
            sometimes define piti and sukkha opposite from my understanding.
            >
            > In terms of pali, what were the common usages for piti and sukkha,
            and how exactly did the Buddha mean those terms to mean in a
            buddhist context?
            >
            > -fk
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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