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Re: AN translations

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  • connie
    Ok, Nina, you ve pushed me far enough with your May they do just one short sutta! thank you, connie AN I 1 Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammaasambuddhassa.
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 15, 2004
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      Ok, Nina, you've pushed me far enough with your "May they do just one
      short sutta!"
      thank you,
      connie


      AN I 1

      Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammaasambuddhassa.

      A"nguttaranikaayo
      Ekakanipaatapaa.li
      1. Ruupaadivaggo

      1. Eva.m me suta.m- eka.m samaya.m bhagavaa saavatthiya.m viharati
      jetavane anaathapi.n.dikassa aaraame. Tatra kho bhagavaa bhikkhuu
      aamantesi- "bhikkhavo"ti. "Bhadante"ti te bhikkhuu bhagavato
      paccassosu.m. Bhagavaa etadavoca- "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m
      ekaruupampi samanupassaami ya.m eva.m purisassa citta.m pariyaadaaya
      ti.t.thati yathayida.m, bhikkhave, itthiruupa.m. Itthiruupa.m,
      bhikkhave, purisassa citta.m pariyaadaaya ti.t.thatii"ti. Pa.thama.m.


      Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammaasambuddhassa.
      adoration to/him/Buddha/arahat/Perfectly Enlightened One
      Devotion to the Perfectly Enlightened Buddha the Arahat

      A"nguttaranikaayo
      [A"nguttara aka Ekuttara(: passing over some?)]
      factors, limbs + guard; pass over/collection = things to be
      guarded/knowing about
      Discourse Collection

      Ekakanipaatapaa.li
      eka=1; ka=which; nipaata=down going [because they're the drag-us-down
      things? (textual order ascends & it's said these texts will disappear
      from the 11th to the 1st)]; paa.li=text
      [text on singular downward pulling things]
      Book of Ones

      1. Ruupaadivaggo
      form/so on/chapter
      Chapter on Form and Such

      1. Eva.m me suta.m-
      thus/to my/hearing-
      Thus I have heard-

      eka.m samaya.m bhagavaa saavatthiya.m viharati jetavane
      anaathapi.n.dikassa aaraame.
      one/time/Fortunate One/Savatthi/lodging/Jetavana (having to do with
      having subdued 'earth'/form and such?) /Anathapindika/Park.
      Once the Buddha was staying at Savatthi, in Anathapindika's Jetavana
      Park.

      Tatra kho bhagavaa bhikkhuu aamantesi- "bhikkhavo"ti.
      there/indeed/Fortunate One/monks/addressed-/"Monks"
      Indeed, the Buddha addressed the monks there, [inviting them to listen]:
      "Monks".

      "Bhadante"ti te bhikkhuu bhagavato paccassosu.m.
      "Venerable" /te?/monks/Buddha/assented.
      "Venerable Sir", the monks accepted.

      Bhagavaa etadavoca-
      Buddha/this said-
      The Buddha said this:

      "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekaruupampi samanupassaami ya.m eva.m
      purisassa citta.m pariyaadaaya ti.t.thati yathayida.m, bhikkhave,
      itthiruupa.m.
      not I say/monks,/other/one thing/sees/because of
      which/that/man/thinks/excessively/abides/like/monks, /womanform.
      I do not say, monks, that there is any other single thing [of form]
      because of seeing which, a man's thoughts remain obsessesed, as that of
      woman.

      Itthiruupa.m, bhikkhave, purisassa citta.m pariyaadaaya ti.t.thatii"ti.
      womanform, /monks/man/thinks/excessively/abides
      The female, monks, man obsesses on.

      Pa.thama.m.
      first
      This is the first thing.


      Devotion to the Perfectly Enlightened Buddha the Arahat

      Discourse Collection (on things to mind)
      Book of Ones - Chapter on Form and Such

      Thus I have heard- Once the Buddha was staying at Savatthi, in
      Anathapindika's Jetavana Park. Indeed, the Buddha addressed the monks
      there, [inviting them to listen]: "Monks". "Venerable Sir", the monks
      accepted. The Buddha said this:
      I do not say, monks, that there is any other single thing [of form]
      because of seeing which, a man's thoughts remain obsessesed, as that of
      woman. The female, monks, man obsesses on.
      This is the first thing.
    • Yuttadhammo
      Here is AN 6.7.1 Comments: 1) On mu.t.thassati and mu.t.thassacca m - they both are given as forgetfulness , and I hoped to distinguish them.
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 15, 2004
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        Here is AN 6.7.1

        Comments:

        1) On "mu.t.thassati" and "mu.t.thassacca'm" - they both are given as "forgetfulness", and I hoped to distinguish them. Forgetfulness may be somewhat vague anyway (e.g. where are my glasses?) But here we have two curious terms, and I would put it out to the group to identify them with more precision. IMHO, mu.t.thassati would mean not remembering to be mindful, and mu.t.thassacca'm would mean not keeping in mind the four noble truths, though I don't know how the terms are used elsewhere. (What does the Thai say? I suppose I could look it up too...)

        2) "duppaññata'm" - elsewhere I have rendered "duppañño" as "unwise", but here of course "unwiseness" wouldn't work. Also, it gets somewhat vague... Here, "poor understanding" seems to strike the heart of the matter.


        A'nguttaranikaayo

        Chakkanipaatapaa.li

        7. Devataavaggo

        1. Anaagaamiphalasutta'm

        "Cha, bhikkhave, dhamme appahaaya abhabbo anaagaamiphala'm sacchikaatu'm.
        /six /oh monks /dhammas /having not abandoned /unable /the fruit of Non-Returner /to realise /
        Six, oh monks, dhammas having not abandoned, one is unable to realise the fruit of Non-Returner.

        Katame cha? Assaddhiya'm, ahirika'm, anottappa'm, kosajja'm, mu.t.thassacca'm, duppaññata'm
        /Which /six /uncertainty /shamelessness /unconcern /indolence /forgetfulness of the truth /poor understanding /
        Which six? Uncertainty , shamelessness, unconcern, indolence, forgetfulness of the truth, poor understanding.

        ime kho, bhikkhave, cha dhamme appahaaya abhabbo anaagaamiphala'm sacchikaatu'm.
        /these /indeed /oh monks /six /dhammas /having not abandoned /unable /the fruit of Non-Returner /to realise /
        Indeed, these, oh monks, six dhammas having not abandoned, one is unable to realise the fruit of Non-Returner.

        "Cha, bhikkhave, dhamme pahaaya bhabbo anaagaamiphala'm sacchikaatu'm.
        /six /oh monks /dhammas /having abandoned /able /the fruit of Non-Returner /to realise
        Six, oh monks, dhammas having abandoned, one is able to realise the fruit of Non-Returner.

        Katame cha? Assaddhiya'm, ahirika'm, anottappa'm, kosajja'm, mu.t.thassacca'm, duppaññata'm
        /Which /six /Uncertainty /shamelessness /unconcern /indolence /forgetfulness of the truth /poor understanding /
        Which six? Uncertainty, shamelessness, unconcern, indolence, forgetfulness of the truth, poor understanding.

        ime kho, bhikkhave, cha dhamme pahaaya bhabbo anaagaamiphala'm sacchikaatun"ti.
        /these /indeed /oh monks /six /dhammas /having abandoned /able /the fruit of Non-Returner /to realise /
        Indeed, these, oh monks, six dhammas having abandoned, one is able to realise the fruit of Non-Returner.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • nina van gorkom
        Dear Connie, Very good of you. Oh, may others follow now! I make some comments. but I stand to be corrected! I have to think of ekaka and nipaata. ... N: anga
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 16, 2004
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          Dear Connie,
          Very good of you.
          Oh, may others follow now!
          I make some comments. but I stand to be corrected! I have to think of ekaka
          and nipaata.
          op 15-06-2004 21:31 schreef connie op nichicon@...:
          > A"nguttaranikaayo
          > Ekakanipaatapaa.li
          > 1. Ruupaadivaggo
          >
          > 1. Eva.m me suta.m- eka.m samaya.m bhagavaa saavatthiya.m viharati
          > jetavane anaathapi.n.dikassa aaraame. Tatra kho bhagavaa bhikkhuu
          > aamantesi- "bhikkhavo"ti. "Bhadante"ti te bhikkhuu bhagavato
          > paccassosu.m. Bhagavaa etadavoca- "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m
          > ekaruupampi samanupassaami ya.m eva.m purisassa citta.m pariyaadaaya
          > ti.t.thati yathayida.m, bhikkhave, itthiruupa.m. Itthiruupa.m,
          > bhikkhave, purisassa citta.m pariyaadaaya ti.t.thatii"ti. Pa.thama.m.
          >
          >C: A"nguttaranikaayo
          > [A"nguttara aka Ekuttara(: passing over some?)]
          > factors, limbs + guard; pass over/collection = things to be
          > guarded/knowing about
          N: anga constituent part. uttara: higher. I think it means that the numbers
          go up, from Ones, to Twos, etc. Upgrading.
          C: Ekakanipaatapaa.li
          > eka=1; ka=which;
          N: ekaka means single. -ka (and also -ika) is an adjective ending, it makes
          a word into an adjective.

          C: nipaata=down going [because they're the drag-us-down
          > things?
          N: It also means a section of a book, I think it is this meaning. I think it
          does not suggest any disappearance of texts.

          > 1. Eva.m me suta.m-
          > thus/to my/hearing-
          > Thus I have heard-
          N: litterally: sutam: particip of su.naati, to hear. and me: by me. Your
          transl is fine.
          C: eka.m samaya.m bhagavaa saavatthiya.m viharati jetavane
          > anaathapi.n.dikassa aaraame.
          > one/time/Fortunate One/Savatthi/lodging/Jetavana (having to do with
          > having subdued 'earth'/form and such?) /Anathapindika/Park.
          N: viharati: to dwell or stay. No suggestion of subduing earth. vana is
          grove.

          C:>
          > "Bhadante"ti te bhikkhuu bhagavato paccassosu.m.
          > "Venerable" /te?/monks/Buddha/assented.
          > "Venerable Sir", the monks accepted.
          N: te is demonstrative in plural: those
          > Bhagavaa etadavoca-
          > Buddha/this said-
          > The Buddha said this:
          >
          C: "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekaruupampi samanupassaami ya.m eva.m
          > purisassa citta.m pariyaadaaya ti.t.thati yathayida.m, bhikkhave,
          > itthiruupa.m.
          > not I say/monks,/other/one thing/sees/because of
          > which/that/man/thinks/excessively/abides/like/monks, /womanform.
          > I do not say, monks, that there is any other single thing [of form]
          > because of seeing which, a man's thoughts remain obsessesed, as that of
          > woman.
          N: citta.m pariyaadaaya ti.t.thati : this is very interesting. I made a
          study of cross references of this expression when doing the Co. to
          Mahaaraahulovaadasutta. Here it is:
          <manaapaamanaapaa phassaa [desirable and undesirable impressions] citta.m na
          pariyaadaaya .thassanti.
          Apply yourself to the mental development that is like the earth, Rahula,
          For, Rahula, agreeable and disagreeable impressions that have arisen when
          you apply yourself to the mental development that is like the earth, will
          not persistently overwhelm the mind. >
          We discussed this here and came to this translation: persistently overwhelm.
          However, this is not the only possibility.

          C: Itthiruupa.m, bhikkhave, purisassa citta.m pariyaadaaya ti.t.thatii"ti.
          > womanform, /monks/man/thinks/excessively/abides
          > The female, monks, man obsesses on.
          N: The sight of a woman (here it is visible object, or sight, ruupa.m; later
          on comes sound, etc.) persistently obsesses a man.
          Nina.
        • nina van gorkom
          Venerable Phra Yuttadhammo, thank you very much. ... N: The dictionary states: mu.t.tha sacca = mu.t.tha =sati=ya, thus not referring to truth but to sati. I
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 16, 2004
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            Venerable Phra Yuttadhammo,
            thank you very much.

            op 16-06-2004 03:07 schreef Yuttadhammo op buffer@...:

            > Here is AN 6.7.1
            >
            > Comments:
            >
            > 1) On "mu.t.thassati" and "mu.t.thassacca'm" - they both are given as
            > "forgetfulness", and I hoped to distinguish them. Forgetfulness may be
            > somewhat vague anyway (e.g. where are my glasses?) But here we have two
            > curious terms, and I would put it out to the group to identify them with more
            > precision. IMHO, mu.t.thassati would mean not remembering to be mindful, and
            > mu.t.thassacca'm would mean not keeping in mind the four noble truths, though
            > I don't know how the terms are used elsewhere. (What does the Thai say? I
            > suppose I could look it up too...)
            N: The dictionary states: mu.t.tha sacca = mu.t.tha =sati=ya, thus not
            referring to truth but to sati. I would think, as you write, not remembering
            to be mindful, very close to mu.t.thassati. The dict also says: in
            combination with asampaja~n~na, lack of understanding or comprehension and
            this is very meaningful. When satipa.t.thaana is developed sati and
            sampaja~n~na are needed, but if they are lacking we are forgetful of naama
            and ruupa. There are no sati and pa~n~naa.
            As to Assaddhiya'm, I would like a stronger term if possible. Uncertainty is
            not so meaningful, we may overlook this term. But it certainly implies
            doubt, lack of assurance. Assaddhiya.m seems to imply: lack of confidence in
            the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha, and also in the Path as the sure Way.
            Such confidence must be strong and unshakable for the Non-returner.
            Confidence as baala, as power. A possibility would be: lack of assurance?
            With respect,
            Nina.
            >
            > A'nguttaranikaayo
            >
            > Chakkanipaatapaa.li
            >
            > 7. Devataavaggo
            >
            > 1. Anaagaamiphalasutta'm
            >
            > "Cha, bhikkhave, dhamme appahaaya abhabbo anaagaamiphala'm sacchikaatu'm.
            > /six /oh monks /dhammas /having not abandoned /unable /the fruit of
            > Non-Returner /to realise /
            > Six, oh monks, dhammas having not abandoned, one is unable to realise the
            > fruit of Non-Returner.
          • Connie Parker
            Dear Nina, Thank you very much for the comments. Sorry I don t have time to study them right now - my computer is acting strange so I m at the public library.
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 18, 2004
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              Dear Nina,
              Thank you very much for the comments. Sorry I don't have time to study them
              right now - my computer is acting strange so I'm at the public library. (No
              Pali books here!).
              peace,
              connie

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            • connie
              Ven. Yuttadhammo, Sir, Thank you for taking up the translations again! I was afraid you weren t coming back. peace, connie
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 2, 2005
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                Ven. Yuttadhammo, Sir,
                Thank you for taking up the translations again! I was afraid you weren't
                coming back.
                peace,
                connie
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