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回覆:Re: [Pali] Yoniso manasikaara in Abhidhamma

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  • Mr Tzung-Kuen Wen
    Dear NIna Thanks a lot for your kind explanation. You re the one I think of will answer this question. But I am still a little confused. N: We should not
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 10, 2004
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      Dear NIna

      Thanks a lot for your kind explanation. You're the one I think of will answer this question. But I am still a little confused.

      N: We should not consider this citta as a citta that decides about kusala or akusala, it is only ahetuka kiriyacitta.

      Do you mean that even though the manodvaaraavajjana-citta can be said to be yoniso or ayoniso, one can put his effort only at the stage of javana process in order to cause 'yoniso manasikaraa' to arise? We can do nothing with the mind-door adverting mind since it is ahetuka- kiriya-citta ?

      N:Ledi Sayadaw compares it as the helmsman of a boat, saying that the course of a boat lies entirely in his hands. I wonder whether this is from a Co. I only have the English text of his book. The same is true for ayoniso manasikaara.

      Which English book of Ledi Sayadaw do you refer to? English translation of Paramatthadipani ?

      with metta

      Tzungkuen


      May you be free from mental and physical suffering
      May you be peaceful and happy.
    • nina van gorkom
      Dear Tzungkuen, ... Tz: Do you mean that even though the manodvaaraavajjana-citta can be said to be ... N: When we say yoniso and ayoniso we have to think of
      Message 2 of 2 , Jun 12, 2004
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        Dear Tzungkuen,
        op 11-06-2004 07:05 schreef Mr Tzung-Kuen Wen op s4060239@...:

        > N: We should not consider this citta as a citta that decides about kusala or
        > akusala, it is only ahetuka kiriyacitta.
        >
        Tz: Do you mean that even though the manodvaaraavajjana-citta can be said
        to be
        > yoniso or ayoniso, one can put his effort only at the stage of javana process
        > in order to cause 'yoniso manasikaraa' to arise? We can do nothing with the
        > mind-door adverting mind since it is ahetuka- kiriya-citta ?
        N: When we say yoniso and ayoniso we have to think of the whole stream of
        javanacittas, and I am inclined to include the manodvaaraavajjana-citta that
        precedes it.
        We read in the Co to the Dhammasangani, the Atthasaalinii, translated as the
        Expositor (Book I, Part IV, Moral Consciousness in the world of sense, 133):
        definition of three kinds of manasikaara. One is a cetasika accompanying
        each citta, the second one is the citta that is the sense-door
        adverting-consciousness, called the regulator of the sense-door process. The
        third one concerns the manodvaaraavajjana-citta we are discussing here:
        <Attention which regulates apperception (javana) is a synonym for
        mind-door-adverting. > Thus, we can say, it regulates what is following. But
        it is so fast, just one moment, and it is kiriyacitta, not kusala nor
        akusala. There is no time for this citta to pause and think: what shall I
        decide, kusala or akusala. It all happens in a flash and it is conditioned
        by previous accumulations of kusala and akusala. This kiriyacitta just
        performs its function in a moment.
        There is a fixed order of the cittas in a process, it is citta-niyaama. We
        cannot cause kusala cittas to arise, but favorable conditions can be
        cultivated, so that we accumulate the inclination to kusala. Right
        understanding of dhammas is most important.
        Tz: Which English book of Ledi Sayadaw do you refer to? English translation
        of
        > Paramatthadipani ?
        N: Yes, printed by the Dep of Religious Affairs, Rangoon. Given to us by a
        Burmese friend, I do not think it is for sale now. As I understand it is
        also on line?
        Nina.
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