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Re: [Pali] AN Translations

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  • nina van gorkom
    Venerable Phra Noah, Thank you very much for the translations. ... N: PEd also gives aorist pataarayi: strive, seems to fit more. Phra: With 6.8.7, one
    Message 1 of 366 , Jun 10, 2004
      Venerable Phra Noah,
      Thank you very much for the translations.
      op 09-06-2004 15:46 schreef Phra Noah Yuttadhammo op buffer@...:
      > In AN 6.8.6, there is the phrase "kusalesu dhammesu uttari ca pataareti". The
      > word pataareti is given to mean "to make go forth, to bring over or through"
      > (PED), but taareti, closely related, can also mean "make haste". Since the
      > meaning given in pataareti doesn't exactly fit the sentence, I rendered it
      > here as: "and makes haste for more in regards to wholesome dhammas." Any
      > comments?
      N: PEd also gives aorist pataarayi: strive, seems to fit more.
      Phra: With 6.8.7, one problem I had was the phrase "yathaabhata'm nikkhitto
      eva'm
      > niriye", where bhata is in a different form from nikkhitta. It is almost as
      > though they refer to different objects? I rendered it as "one is dropped as
      > though carried there, yea, in heaven." But wouldn't that be "yathaabhato
      > nikkhito...?" Please explain.
      N: PED, gives long explanations. brought and taken. (under yaatha, after
      yaatha bhuuta). It even quotes this sentence.
      See below:
      >
      > 6. Mahantattasutta'm
      >
      > Chahi, bhikkhave, dhammehi samannaagato bhikkhu nacirasseva mahantatta'm,
      > vepullatta'm paapu.naati dhammesu.
      > With six, oh monks, dhammas endowed, a monk, verily, in no long time, attains
      > to greatness, vastness, in regards to dhammas.
      N: vepullatta'm: could also be: abundance.
      >
      > Katamehi chahi? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu aalokabahulo ca hoti yogabahulo
      > ca> vedabahulo ca asantu.t.thibahulo ca anikkhittadhuro ca kusalesu
      > dhammesu uttari ca pataareti.
      >
      > With which six? Here, oh monks, a monk is abundant in brightness, abundant in
      > striving, abundant in feeling (veda), abundant in relentlessness, unceasing in
      > duties, and makes haste for more in regards to wholesome dhammas.
      N: brightness: it could also be: clarity of insight. The Co has: clarity of
      insight (~naa.na)
      asantu.t.thi: litterally: dissatisfaction, namely with akusala, thus, I
      think relentlessness is good.
      Phra: anikkhittadhuro ca kusalesu dhammesu uttari ca pataareti.
      and makes haste for more in regards to wholesome dhammas.
      N: A possibility: He does not put down the burden or task, or: he does not
      relinquish his task and strives for the increase of wholesome dhammas.(In my
      Thai edition: jom payayaam hai jing khyn)
      > Imehi kho, bhikkhave, chahi dhammehi samannaagato bhikkhu nacirasseva
      > mahantatta'm vepullatta'm paapu.naati dhammesuu"ti.
      ****
      > "Chahi, bhikkhave, dhammehi samannaagato yathaabhata'm nikkhitto eva'm niraye.

      > With six, oh monks, dhammas endowed, one is dropped as though carried there,
      > yea, in hell.
      N: Perhaps: brought and taken to Hell? PTS has here only: cast in Hell.
      Thai: he will be born in Hell, as it were taken and kept( there). (Thuk nam
      ma kep wai).
      This is a difficult one. May be Rett has a suggestion.
      Respectfully,
      Nina.
      P.S. I hope Henri and others will also translate suttas.
    • nina van gorkom
      Dear Yong Peng, I found this in my concepts file not sent. So, I send it now, though belated (29 July). I cannot remember whether I sent it, but I do not see
      Message 366 of 366 , Aug 17, 2006
        Dear Yong Peng,

        I found this in my concepts file not sent. So, I send it now, though
        belated (29 July). I cannot remember whether I sent it, but I do not
        see it in the messages.

        Nina.
        op 07-06-2006 08:45 schreef Ong Yong Peng op pali.smith@...:

        please advise on the word: aruupasa~n~nii

        21-25. Saddhindriya.m bhaaveti... viiriyindriya.m bhaaveti...
        satindriya.m bhaaveti... samaadhindriya.m bhaaveti...
        pa~n~nindriya.m bhaaveti....



        ----------------------------------------------------------

        21-25. Saddhindriya.m bhaaveti... viiriyindriya.m bhaaveti...
        satindriya.m bhaaveti... samaadhindriya.m bhaaveti...
        pa~n~nindriya.m bhaaveti....
        ["O monks, if a monk] developed the faculty of faith (faculty of
        energy, faculty of mindfulness, faculty of concentration, faculty of
        wisdom), [even for the duration of a finger-snap, monks, such is
        said...]
        ------
        N: such a one is said...
        --------
        ----------------------------------------------------------

        31-37. Satisambojjha`nga.m bhaaveti... dhammavicayasambojjha`nga.m
        bhaaveti... viiriyasambojjha`nga.m bhaaveti... piitisambojjha`nga.m
        bhaaveti... passaddhisambojjha`nga.m bhaaveti...
        samaadhisambojjha`nga.m bhaaveti... upekkhaasambojjha`nga.m
        bhaaveti....

        ["O monks, if a monk] developed the mindfulness (doctrinal
        investigation,
        ------
        N: Investigation of Dhamma.
        -------

        38-45. Sammaadi.t.thi.m bhaaveti... sammaasa`nkappa.m bhaaveti...
        sammaavaaca.m bhaaveti... sammaakammanta.m bhaaveti... sammaa-
        aajiiva.m bhaaveti... sammaavaayaama.m bhaaveti... sammaasati.m
        bhaaveti... sammaasamaadhi.m bhaaveti....
        ["O monks, if a monk] developed right view (right intention, right
        speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right
        mindfulness, right concentration), [even for the duration of a
        finger-snap, monks, such is said...]
        -------
        N: sammaasa`nkappa.m: instead of right intention: right thinking.

        Intention is usually reserved for the term cetanaa, volition or kamma
        which
        is not a factor of the eightfold Path.
        Sammaadi.t.thi and sammaasa`nkappa are together called the wisdom of the
        eightfold Path. Sammaasa`nkappa is vitakka cetasika and it assists
        paññaa in
        'touching' or striking the object of understanding so that paññaa can
        know
        it.

        ----------------------------------------------------------

        46-53. Ajjhatta.m ruupasa~n~nii bahiddhaa ruupaani passati
        parittaani suva.n.nadubba.n.naani. 'Taani abhibhuyya jaanaami
        passaamii'ti -- eva.msa~n~nii hoti...
        ["O monks, if a monk, even for the duration of a finger-snap,]
        conscious of material forms arising from within,
        -------
        N: ajjhatta: I would eliminate arising, thus: within himself.
        I think materiality of his own body.
        He can develop kasinas taking as subject parts of his own body or
        external
        objects and then attain ruupa-jhaana.
        --------

        * appamaa.na (adj) endless, immeasurable, boundless, unlimited.
        ------
        N: here is allusion to the immaterial jhaanas, and here is the
        connection
        with the term aruupasa~n~nin.
        I consulted Dhammasangani Pali, 225: this has aruupasa~n~na. This is
        translated by PTS as: unconscious of any part of his corporeal self..

        The *a* is a negation of ruupasa~n~nin, not of ruupa, thus, not
        perceiving
        ruupa, materiality, of his own body. (See below the Atthasaalinii).
        The word unconscious seems misleading.
        ---------
        Ajjhatta.m aruupasa~n~nii bahiddhaa ruupaani passati parittaani
        suva.n.nadubba.n.naani. 'Taani abhibhuyya jaanaami passaamii'ti --
        eva.msa~n~nii hoti...

        ["O monks, if a monk, even for the duration of a finger-snap,]
        conscious of immaterial forms arising from within,
        ------
        N: immaterial forms: this is a contradiction.
        It could be: not conscious of material forms of his own body...
        This could be applied of all the following paras. These paras seem to
        refer
        to the colour kasinas of ruupa-jhaana.

        The Atthasaalinii, Co. to the Dhammasangani, explains (188) these
        'positions
        of mastery'.
        <'Not perceiving material quality in himself' means devoid of the
        perception
        of the preamble in his own bodily frame, either from not getting it,
        or from
        not wishing it.
        'Sees material qualities external to himself' means, from having
        performed
        the preamble externally in the eight devices, he sees with jhaana-
        eyes the
        external objects of these eight devices by virtue of the preamble and
        the
        extasy.
        'Limited' means not growing....
        Beautiful or ugly means pure or impure colours...>

        It is asked why it is said, Not perceiving material quality in
        himself, this
        is because his own body is not to be mastered, only external objects...
        *****
        Nina.






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