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Re: [Pali] effortless quiet

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  • nina van gorkom
    Dear Connie, I found some more explanations. But first a short intro for those who are not familiar with this subject. ... Nina: In the Suttanta we read about
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 5, 2003
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      Dear Connie,
      I found some more explanations. But first a short intro for those who are
      not familiar with this subject.
      op 04-11-2003 19:43 schreef connie op nichicon@...:

      > I am wondering what the Pali is for 'effortless quiet', from:
      >
      > Vsm XVII, 89. (14) A resultant state that, by effortless quiet,
      > assists effortless quiet [in other states] is a kamma-result condition.
      Nina: In the Suttanta we read about the Dependent Origination, the
      conditionality of phenomena. Ignorance conditions kamma, kamma conditions
      consciousness (vi~n~naana.m) which is vipaakacitta, and so on. It teaches
      how we are in the cycle of birth and death so long as there is ignorance.
      The Pa.t.thana, the seventh Book of the Abhidhamma deals with all the
      different conditioning factors in detail. There are twentyfour main classes
      of conditioning factors. During my conversation with Michael we touched on
      root condition: roots are cetasikas which can accompany citta and condition
      it by way of root-condition, hetu-paccaya. We also spoke about kamma which
      conditions vipakacitta. Rebirth-consciousness is vipakacitta conditioned by
      kamma. Also life-continuum, bhavangacitta, arising in between processes of
      citta and also in dreamless sleep, is vipakacitta. This citta does not have
      an object that impinges on the six doors, but it only experiences the same
      object as the rebirth-consciousness. The sense-cognitions of seeing,
      hearing, etc. are vipakacitta.
      Citta which is vipakacitta is accompanied by mental factors, cetasikas which
      are also vipaka. Citta and the accompanying cetasikas condition one another.
      As we have seen in the case of kusala citta and akusala citta, the
      accompanying roots condition citta and the other accompanying cetasikas by
      way of root. Kusala citta and akusala citta are cittas which are cause: they
      can motivate good deeds and bad deeds. Vipakacittas are only results they
      cannot motivate deeds. Vipakacitta and the accompanying cetasikas condition
      one another since all of them are just vipaka. That is why the word
      effortless quiet is used. They are quite different from the active kusala
      citta and akusala citta.
      Ven. U Narada in his "Guide to Conditional Relations" elaborates:
      < This condiiton is like fruitts which have ripened and flowers which have
      bloomed. Since energy was expended to reach this state, they have now become
      weak and are, therefore, passive and calm.
      The resultant consciousnesses are calm. In the continuity of a person who is
      asleep [N; bhavangacitta], the resultant life-continuum, taking as object
      either kamma, a sign of kamma or a sign of destiny, successively arises and
      ceases like the water in a flowing river. During this time of sleep no
      efforts are made for action in thought, word or deed and the life-continuum
      is so calm that there is no awareness that the mind is functioning at all.
      ... Also, in the five-door mental process, the fivefold consciousnesses [N;
      the sense-cognitions] and then other resultant consciousnesses arise without
      having to make efforts when the objects and bases coincide. So, if these
      were the only consciousnesses, there would be no awareness of objects. It is
      only when the impulsions [N:javanas, kusala cittas and akusala cittas in a
      process of cittas] arise that objects are known. This shows how calm the
      resultants are....>
      Also vipakacittas such as seeing know an object but they know it in a way
      different from the active javanacittas. Ledi Sayadaw says:<Just as mangoes
      are very soft and delicate when they are ripe; so also the resultant states
      are very tranquil, since they are inactive and have no stimulus.>
      Abhidhammatta Sangaha, tr. by Ven Narada:
      <Like a cool breeze that pacifies a person seated under the cool shade of a
      tree, even so mental states of resultant types of consciousness are causally
      related to coexistent mental states and material phenomena by way of
      'effect' dues to their effortless peaceful nature.>
      They do not mention from which texts they have this material with similes,
      but probably from commentaries. The Pali is not given.
      >
      C: Also, I see words written a lot of different ways like nama-kkhandha,
      > nama khandha, namakhanda and namakkhandha. What is the preferred way to
      > write compounds with double consonants, like the khandhas and tikas?
      N: I think when nama and khandha are written as one word it is
      naamakkhandha. Cakkhuppasaadaruupa: eyesense. And in texts words are tied
      together like this. But when terms are treated separately, I think it is
      khandha, without the double k.
      Nina.
    • nina van gorkom
      Dear Dimitri and Connie, Thank you Dimitri. Let me analyse it: nir is negation. Ussaha is effort. Santa: calm, and bhaava: nature, state. op 05-11-2003 07:34
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 5, 2003
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        Dear Dimitri and Connie,
        Thank you Dimitri.
        Let me analyse it: nir is negation. Ussaha is effort. Santa: calm, and
        bhaava: nature, state.
        op 05-11-2003 07:34 schreef Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko (Äìèòðèé Àëåêñååâè÷
        Èâàõíåíêî) op koleso@...:

        > nirussaahasantabhaava'.
      • connie
        Dear Dimitri, Everett and Nina, Thank you very much. I hadn t really considered that someone might be trying to make a different point by having a word as a
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 6, 2003
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          Dear Dimitri, Everett and Nina,

          Thank you very much.

          I hadn't really considered that someone might be trying to make a
          different point by having a word as a compound or as separate words
          (ruupakkhandha, ruupa khanda). I just thought it was more of a
          convenience for the reader type consideration. I'll have to think about
          that next time I see the 'same' words spelled differently in the same
          writing... which in my case is already in English for the most part. I
          join the others who have stated that this list is their main Pali
          teacher and add my thank you's for that as well.

          Someone had suggested to me that 'effortless quiet' might be something
          like 'wind-flowers' (puppham?) ... perhaps as Nina quoted from Ven.
          Narada... 'like fruits which have ripened and flowers which have
          bloomed' and 'a cool breeze that pacifies'.

          I asked thinking that once I knew the word, I could look it up, but who
          knows how long it would have taken me to figure out how to break
          nirussaahasantabhaava down without help!

          peace,
          connie
        • connie
          Dear Nina and Dimitry, Would it be ok if I include your answers on effortless quiet in a post to DSList? Thank you, connie
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 13, 2003
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            Dear Nina and Dimitry,
            Would it be ok if I include your answers on effortless quiet in a post
            to DSList?
            Thank you,
            connie
          • nina van gorkom
            Dear Connie, But of course it is OK for me, Nina.
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 14, 2003
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              Dear Connie,
              But of course it is OK for me,
              Nina.
              op 13-11-2003 21:38 schreef connie op nichicon@...:

              > Dear Nina and Dimitry,
              > Would it be ok if I include your answers on effortless quiet in a post
              > to DSList?
            • connie
              Dear Nina and Dimitry, Thank you again for the answers and letting me forward them to DSlist. peace, connie
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 16, 2003
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                Dear Nina and Dimitry,
                Thank you again for the answers and letting me forward them to DSlist.
                peace,
                connie
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