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Re: [Pali] effortless quiet

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  • Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko (Äìèòðèé À
    Hi Connie, c I am wondering what the Pali is for effortless quiet , from: 607. Nirussaahasantabhaavena nirussaahasantabhaavaaya upakaarako vipaakadhammo
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 4, 2003
      Hi Connie,

      c> I am wondering what the Pali is for 'effortless quiet', from:

      607. Nirussaahasantabhaavena nirussaahasantabhaavaaya upakaarako
      vipaakadhammo vipaakapaccayo. So pavatte ta.msamu.t.thaanaana.m,
      pa.tisandhiya.m ka.tattaa ca ruupaana.m, sabbattha ca
      sampayuttadhammaana.m paccayo hoti. Yathaaha-"vipaakaabyaakato eko
      khandho ti.n.nanna.m khandhaana.m cittasamu.t.thaanaana~nca
      ruupaana.m vipaakapaccayena paccayo …pe… pa.tisandhikkha.ne
      vipaakaabyaakato eko khandho ti.n.nanna.m khandhaana.m ka.tattaa
      ca ruupaana.m. Tayo khandhaa ekassa khandhassa. Dve khandhaa
      dvinna.m khandhaana.m ka.tattaa ca ruupaana.m vipaakapaccayena
      paccayo. Khandhaa vatthussa vipaakapaccayena paccayo"ti.

      It's 'nirussaahasantabhaava'.

      c> Also, I see words written a lot of different ways like nama-kkhandha,
      c> nama khandha, namakhanda and namakkhandha. What is the preferred way to
      c> write compounds with double consonants, like the khandhas and tikas?

      Compound 'naamakkhandha' is used three times in the commentaries
      available on CSCD, 'naamakhandha' does not occur. So sandhi in
      compounds leads to consonant doubling. If there's no compound, there's
      no doubling. The 'nama khandha' is easier to understand, and
      'namakkhandha/nama-kkhandha' is closer to the original texts.

      Regards,
      Dimitry

      http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
    • Everett Thiele
      ... In the case of separating the words into nama khanda I don t think that it is so innocent. It amounts to an editorial choice, saying that this isn t to
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 4, 2003
        >The 'nama khandha' is easier to understand, and
        >'namakkhandha/nama-kkhandha' is closer to the original texts.

        In the case of separating the words into 'nama khanda' I don't think
        that it is so innocent. It amounts to an editorial choice, saying
        that this isn't to be read as a compound but as two separate words.
        This is a very real issue in the editions I've come across so far.
        Sometimes the editor has probably made the wrong choice.

        Putting in the dash 'nama-kkhanda' is helpful to the reader, but
        leaves open the possibiity that the editor has misanalyzed the
        compound.

        So I guess the answer to the original question has to do with how
        certain the editor is of his/her reading. The less certain they are,
        the better it perhaps is to just reproduce the manuscript without
        extras.
      • nina van gorkom
        Dear Connie, I found some more explanations. But first a short intro for those who are not familiar with this subject. ... Nina: In the Suttanta we read about
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 5, 2003
          Dear Connie,
          I found some more explanations. But first a short intro for those who are
          not familiar with this subject.
          op 04-11-2003 19:43 schreef connie op nichicon@...:

          > I am wondering what the Pali is for 'effortless quiet', from:
          >
          > Vsm XVII, 89. (14) A resultant state that, by effortless quiet,
          > assists effortless quiet [in other states] is a kamma-result condition.
          Nina: In the Suttanta we read about the Dependent Origination, the
          conditionality of phenomena. Ignorance conditions kamma, kamma conditions
          consciousness (vi~n~naana.m) which is vipaakacitta, and so on. It teaches
          how we are in the cycle of birth and death so long as there is ignorance.
          The Pa.t.thana, the seventh Book of the Abhidhamma deals with all the
          different conditioning factors in detail. There are twentyfour main classes
          of conditioning factors. During my conversation with Michael we touched on
          root condition: roots are cetasikas which can accompany citta and condition
          it by way of root-condition, hetu-paccaya. We also spoke about kamma which
          conditions vipakacitta. Rebirth-consciousness is vipakacitta conditioned by
          kamma. Also life-continuum, bhavangacitta, arising in between processes of
          citta and also in dreamless sleep, is vipakacitta. This citta does not have
          an object that impinges on the six doors, but it only experiences the same
          object as the rebirth-consciousness. The sense-cognitions of seeing,
          hearing, etc. are vipakacitta.
          Citta which is vipakacitta is accompanied by mental factors, cetasikas which
          are also vipaka. Citta and the accompanying cetasikas condition one another.
          As we have seen in the case of kusala citta and akusala citta, the
          accompanying roots condition citta and the other accompanying cetasikas by
          way of root. Kusala citta and akusala citta are cittas which are cause: they
          can motivate good deeds and bad deeds. Vipakacittas are only results they
          cannot motivate deeds. Vipakacitta and the accompanying cetasikas condition
          one another since all of them are just vipaka. That is why the word
          effortless quiet is used. They are quite different from the active kusala
          citta and akusala citta.
          Ven. U Narada in his "Guide to Conditional Relations" elaborates:
          < This condiiton is like fruitts which have ripened and flowers which have
          bloomed. Since energy was expended to reach this state, they have now become
          weak and are, therefore, passive and calm.
          The resultant consciousnesses are calm. In the continuity of a person who is
          asleep [N; bhavangacitta], the resultant life-continuum, taking as object
          either kamma, a sign of kamma or a sign of destiny, successively arises and
          ceases like the water in a flowing river. During this time of sleep no
          efforts are made for action in thought, word or deed and the life-continuum
          is so calm that there is no awareness that the mind is functioning at all.
          ... Also, in the five-door mental process, the fivefold consciousnesses [N;
          the sense-cognitions] and then other resultant consciousnesses arise without
          having to make efforts when the objects and bases coincide. So, if these
          were the only consciousnesses, there would be no awareness of objects. It is
          only when the impulsions [N:javanas, kusala cittas and akusala cittas in a
          process of cittas] arise that objects are known. This shows how calm the
          resultants are....>
          Also vipakacittas such as seeing know an object but they know it in a way
          different from the active javanacittas. Ledi Sayadaw says:<Just as mangoes
          are very soft and delicate when they are ripe; so also the resultant states
          are very tranquil, since they are inactive and have no stimulus.>
          Abhidhammatta Sangaha, tr. by Ven Narada:
          <Like a cool breeze that pacifies a person seated under the cool shade of a
          tree, even so mental states of resultant types of consciousness are causally
          related to coexistent mental states and material phenomena by way of
          'effect' dues to their effortless peaceful nature.>
          They do not mention from which texts they have this material with similes,
          but probably from commentaries. The Pali is not given.
          >
          C: Also, I see words written a lot of different ways like nama-kkhandha,
          > nama khandha, namakhanda and namakkhandha. What is the preferred way to
          > write compounds with double consonants, like the khandhas and tikas?
          N: I think when nama and khandha are written as one word it is
          naamakkhandha. Cakkhuppasaadaruupa: eyesense. And in texts words are tied
          together like this. But when terms are treated separately, I think it is
          khandha, without the double k.
          Nina.
        • nina van gorkom
          Dear Dimitri and Connie, Thank you Dimitri. Let me analyse it: nir is negation. Ussaha is effort. Santa: calm, and bhaava: nature, state. op 05-11-2003 07:34
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 5, 2003
            Dear Dimitri and Connie,
            Thank you Dimitri.
            Let me analyse it: nir is negation. Ussaha is effort. Santa: calm, and
            bhaava: nature, state.
            op 05-11-2003 07:34 schreef Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko (Äìèòðèé Àëåêñååâè÷
            Èâàõíåíêî) op koleso@...:

            > nirussaahasantabhaava'.
          • connie
            Dear Dimitri, Everett and Nina, Thank you very much. I hadn t really considered that someone might be trying to make a different point by having a word as a
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 6, 2003
              Dear Dimitri, Everett and Nina,

              Thank you very much.

              I hadn't really considered that someone might be trying to make a
              different point by having a word as a compound or as separate words
              (ruupakkhandha, ruupa khanda). I just thought it was more of a
              convenience for the reader type consideration. I'll have to think about
              that next time I see the 'same' words spelled differently in the same
              writing... which in my case is already in English for the most part. I
              join the others who have stated that this list is their main Pali
              teacher and add my thank you's for that as well.

              Someone had suggested to me that 'effortless quiet' might be something
              like 'wind-flowers' (puppham?) ... perhaps as Nina quoted from Ven.
              Narada... 'like fruits which have ripened and flowers which have
              bloomed' and 'a cool breeze that pacifies'.

              I asked thinking that once I knew the word, I could look it up, but who
              knows how long it would have taken me to figure out how to break
              nirussaahasantabhaava down without help!

              peace,
              connie
            • connie
              Dear Nina and Dimitry, Would it be ok if I include your answers on effortless quiet in a post to DSList? Thank you, connie
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 13, 2003
                Dear Nina and Dimitry,
                Would it be ok if I include your answers on effortless quiet in a post
                to DSList?
                Thank you,
                connie
              • nina van gorkom
                Dear Connie, But of course it is OK for me, Nina.
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 14, 2003
                  Dear Connie,
                  But of course it is OK for me,
                  Nina.
                  op 13-11-2003 21:38 schreef connie op nichicon@...:

                  > Dear Nina and Dimitry,
                  > Would it be ok if I include your answers on effortless quiet in a post
                  > to DSList?
                • connie
                  Dear Nina and Dimitry, Thank you again for the answers and letting me forward them to DSlist. peace, connie
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 16, 2003
                    Dear Nina and Dimitry,
                    Thank you again for the answers and letting me forward them to DSlist.
                    peace,
                    connie
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