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effortless quiet

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  • connie
    Hi, I am wondering what the Pali is for effortless quiet , from: Vsm XVII, 89. (14) A resultant state that, by effortless quiet, assists effortless quiet
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 4, 2003
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      Hi,

      I am wondering what the Pali is for 'effortless quiet', from:

      Vsm XVII, 89. (14) A resultant state that, by effortless quiet,
      assists effortless quiet [in other states] is a kamma-result condition.
      In the course of an existence it is a condition for states originated by
      it, and at rebirth-linking for the kinds of materiality due to kamma
      performed, and in both cases for the associated states, according as it
      is said 'One resultant indeterminate aggregate is a condition, as
      kamma-result condition, for three aggregates and for the kinds of
      materialtiy originated by consciousness...At the moment of rebirth
      linking one resultant indeterminate aggregate [is a condition...] for
      three aggregates...Three aggregates [are a condition...] for one
      aggregate...Two aggregates are a condition, as kamma-result condition,
      for two aggregates and for the kinds of materiality due to kamma
      performed. Aggregates are a condition as kamma-result condition, for
      the physical basis' (P.tn 1.173).

      Also, I see words written a lot of different ways like nama-kkhandha,
      nama khandha, namakhanda and namakkhandha. What is the preferred way to
      write compounds with double consonants, like the khandhas and tikas?

      Thank you,
      connie
    • Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko (Äìèòðèé À
      Hi Connie, c I am wondering what the Pali is for effortless quiet , from: 607. Nirussaahasantabhaavena nirussaahasantabhaavaaya upakaarako vipaakadhammo
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 4, 2003
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        Hi Connie,

        c> I am wondering what the Pali is for 'effortless quiet', from:

        607. Nirussaahasantabhaavena nirussaahasantabhaavaaya upakaarako
        vipaakadhammo vipaakapaccayo. So pavatte ta.msamu.t.thaanaana.m,
        pa.tisandhiya.m ka.tattaa ca ruupaana.m, sabbattha ca
        sampayuttadhammaana.m paccayo hoti. Yathaaha-"vipaakaabyaakato eko
        khandho ti.n.nanna.m khandhaana.m cittasamu.t.thaanaana~nca
        ruupaana.m vipaakapaccayena paccayo …pe… pa.tisandhikkha.ne
        vipaakaabyaakato eko khandho ti.n.nanna.m khandhaana.m ka.tattaa
        ca ruupaana.m. Tayo khandhaa ekassa khandhassa. Dve khandhaa
        dvinna.m khandhaana.m ka.tattaa ca ruupaana.m vipaakapaccayena
        paccayo. Khandhaa vatthussa vipaakapaccayena paccayo"ti.

        It's 'nirussaahasantabhaava'.

        c> Also, I see words written a lot of different ways like nama-kkhandha,
        c> nama khandha, namakhanda and namakkhandha. What is the preferred way to
        c> write compounds with double consonants, like the khandhas and tikas?

        Compound 'naamakkhandha' is used three times in the commentaries
        available on CSCD, 'naamakhandha' does not occur. So sandhi in
        compounds leads to consonant doubling. If there's no compound, there's
        no doubling. The 'nama khandha' is easier to understand, and
        'namakkhandha/nama-kkhandha' is closer to the original texts.

        Regards,
        Dimitry

        http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
      • Everett Thiele
        ... In the case of separating the words into nama khanda I don t think that it is so innocent. It amounts to an editorial choice, saying that this isn t to
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 4, 2003
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          >The 'nama khandha' is easier to understand, and
          >'namakkhandha/nama-kkhandha' is closer to the original texts.

          In the case of separating the words into 'nama khanda' I don't think
          that it is so innocent. It amounts to an editorial choice, saying
          that this isn't to be read as a compound but as two separate words.
          This is a very real issue in the editions I've come across so far.
          Sometimes the editor has probably made the wrong choice.

          Putting in the dash 'nama-kkhanda' is helpful to the reader, but
          leaves open the possibiity that the editor has misanalyzed the
          compound.

          So I guess the answer to the original question has to do with how
          certain the editor is of his/her reading. The less certain they are,
          the better it perhaps is to just reproduce the manuscript without
          extras.
        • nina van gorkom
          Dear Connie, I found some more explanations. But first a short intro for those who are not familiar with this subject. ... Nina: In the Suttanta we read about
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 5, 2003
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            Dear Connie,
            I found some more explanations. But first a short intro for those who are
            not familiar with this subject.
            op 04-11-2003 19:43 schreef connie op nichicon@...:

            > I am wondering what the Pali is for 'effortless quiet', from:
            >
            > Vsm XVII, 89. (14) A resultant state that, by effortless quiet,
            > assists effortless quiet [in other states] is a kamma-result condition.
            Nina: In the Suttanta we read about the Dependent Origination, the
            conditionality of phenomena. Ignorance conditions kamma, kamma conditions
            consciousness (vi~n~naana.m) which is vipaakacitta, and so on. It teaches
            how we are in the cycle of birth and death so long as there is ignorance.
            The Pa.t.thana, the seventh Book of the Abhidhamma deals with all the
            different conditioning factors in detail. There are twentyfour main classes
            of conditioning factors. During my conversation with Michael we touched on
            root condition: roots are cetasikas which can accompany citta and condition
            it by way of root-condition, hetu-paccaya. We also spoke about kamma which
            conditions vipakacitta. Rebirth-consciousness is vipakacitta conditioned by
            kamma. Also life-continuum, bhavangacitta, arising in between processes of
            citta and also in dreamless sleep, is vipakacitta. This citta does not have
            an object that impinges on the six doors, but it only experiences the same
            object as the rebirth-consciousness. The sense-cognitions of seeing,
            hearing, etc. are vipakacitta.
            Citta which is vipakacitta is accompanied by mental factors, cetasikas which
            are also vipaka. Citta and the accompanying cetasikas condition one another.
            As we have seen in the case of kusala citta and akusala citta, the
            accompanying roots condition citta and the other accompanying cetasikas by
            way of root. Kusala citta and akusala citta are cittas which are cause: they
            can motivate good deeds and bad deeds. Vipakacittas are only results they
            cannot motivate deeds. Vipakacitta and the accompanying cetasikas condition
            one another since all of them are just vipaka. That is why the word
            effortless quiet is used. They are quite different from the active kusala
            citta and akusala citta.
            Ven. U Narada in his "Guide to Conditional Relations" elaborates:
            < This condiiton is like fruitts which have ripened and flowers which have
            bloomed. Since energy was expended to reach this state, they have now become
            weak and are, therefore, passive and calm.
            The resultant consciousnesses are calm. In the continuity of a person who is
            asleep [N; bhavangacitta], the resultant life-continuum, taking as object
            either kamma, a sign of kamma or a sign of destiny, successively arises and
            ceases like the water in a flowing river. During this time of sleep no
            efforts are made for action in thought, word or deed and the life-continuum
            is so calm that there is no awareness that the mind is functioning at all.
            ... Also, in the five-door mental process, the fivefold consciousnesses [N;
            the sense-cognitions] and then other resultant consciousnesses arise without
            having to make efforts when the objects and bases coincide. So, if these
            were the only consciousnesses, there would be no awareness of objects. It is
            only when the impulsions [N:javanas, kusala cittas and akusala cittas in a
            process of cittas] arise that objects are known. This shows how calm the
            resultants are....>
            Also vipakacittas such as seeing know an object but they know it in a way
            different from the active javanacittas. Ledi Sayadaw says:<Just as mangoes
            are very soft and delicate when they are ripe; so also the resultant states
            are very tranquil, since they are inactive and have no stimulus.>
            Abhidhammatta Sangaha, tr. by Ven Narada:
            <Like a cool breeze that pacifies a person seated under the cool shade of a
            tree, even so mental states of resultant types of consciousness are causally
            related to coexistent mental states and material phenomena by way of
            'effect' dues to their effortless peaceful nature.>
            They do not mention from which texts they have this material with similes,
            but probably from commentaries. The Pali is not given.
            >
            C: Also, I see words written a lot of different ways like nama-kkhandha,
            > nama khandha, namakhanda and namakkhandha. What is the preferred way to
            > write compounds with double consonants, like the khandhas and tikas?
            N: I think when nama and khandha are written as one word it is
            naamakkhandha. Cakkhuppasaadaruupa: eyesense. And in texts words are tied
            together like this. But when terms are treated separately, I think it is
            khandha, without the double k.
            Nina.
          • nina van gorkom
            Dear Dimitri and Connie, Thank you Dimitri. Let me analyse it: nir is negation. Ussaha is effort. Santa: calm, and bhaava: nature, state. op 05-11-2003 07:34
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 5, 2003
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              Dear Dimitri and Connie,
              Thank you Dimitri.
              Let me analyse it: nir is negation. Ussaha is effort. Santa: calm, and
              bhaava: nature, state.
              op 05-11-2003 07:34 schreef Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko (Äìèòðèé Àëåêñååâè÷
              Èâàõíåíêî) op koleso@...:

              > nirussaahasantabhaava'.
            • connie
              Dear Dimitri, Everett and Nina, Thank you very much. I hadn t really considered that someone might be trying to make a different point by having a word as a
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 6, 2003
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                Dear Dimitri, Everett and Nina,

                Thank you very much.

                I hadn't really considered that someone might be trying to make a
                different point by having a word as a compound or as separate words
                (ruupakkhandha, ruupa khanda). I just thought it was more of a
                convenience for the reader type consideration. I'll have to think about
                that next time I see the 'same' words spelled differently in the same
                writing... which in my case is already in English for the most part. I
                join the others who have stated that this list is their main Pali
                teacher and add my thank you's for that as well.

                Someone had suggested to me that 'effortless quiet' might be something
                like 'wind-flowers' (puppham?) ... perhaps as Nina quoted from Ven.
                Narada... 'like fruits which have ripened and flowers which have
                bloomed' and 'a cool breeze that pacifies'.

                I asked thinking that once I knew the word, I could look it up, but who
                knows how long it would have taken me to figure out how to break
                nirussaahasantabhaava down without help!

                peace,
                connie
              • connie
                Dear Nina and Dimitry, Would it be ok if I include your answers on effortless quiet in a post to DSList? Thank you, connie
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 13, 2003
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                  Dear Nina and Dimitry,
                  Would it be ok if I include your answers on effortless quiet in a post
                  to DSList?
                  Thank you,
                  connie
                • nina van gorkom
                  Dear Connie, But of course it is OK for me, Nina.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 14, 2003
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                    Dear Connie,
                    But of course it is OK for me,
                    Nina.
                    op 13-11-2003 21:38 schreef connie op nichicon@...:

                    > Dear Nina and Dimitry,
                    > Would it be ok if I include your answers on effortless quiet in a post
                    > to DSList?
                  • connie
                    Dear Nina and Dimitry, Thank you again for the answers and letting me forward them to DSlist. peace, connie
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 16, 2003
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                      Dear Nina and Dimitry,
                      Thank you again for the answers and letting me forward them to DSlist.
                      peace,
                      connie
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