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Re: [Pali] Kitagiri Sutta

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  • Michael Beisert
    Nina, Tks for your reply but I still have some difficulties in uderstanding this passage. I understand that the PTS translation refers to some person is
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 25, 2003
      Nina,

      Tks for your reply but I still have some difficulties in uderstanding this
      passage. I understand that the PTS translation refers to 'some person is
      abiding' while Bhikkhu Bodhi uses 'some person contacts with the body'. But
      what does this mean??? Abiding in what? The person contacts the body with
      what?

      Metta
      Michael


      >From: nina van gorkom <nilo@...>
      >Reply-To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      >To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: Re: [Pali] Kitagiri Sutta
      >Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:27:07 +0200
      >
      >Dear Michael,
      >I have the PTS translation: ..the person who is freed both ways
      >(ubhatobhaagavimutta): <As to this, monks, some person is abiding, having
      >apprehended with the person those peaceful deliverances...>
      >Some footnotes:having apprehended : <phassitvaa, touched. >
      >< person: kaayena, which would appear to mean the ruupakaaya and the
      >naamakaaya.>
      >Naamakaaya can mean cetasikas (mental factors), and also citta.
      >Nina.
      >op 23-10-2003 17:01 schreef Michael Beisert op mbeisert@...:
      >
      > >
      > > The translation made by Bhikkhu Boddhi of the Kitagiri Sutta ( MN 70) in
      >par
      > > 15 states that 'Here some person contacts with the body ... ' The same
      > > phrase is repeated in the following sections which describe the
      >different
      > > kinds of noble disciples.
      > >
      > > Could anyone shed some light on what this 'contact with the body means'?
      >Is
      > > it physical body or mental body? What kind of contact is the sutta
      >referring
      > > to?
      > >
      >

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    • nina van gorkom
      Dear Michael, as to the Kitagirisutta: Suan explained that it should be the mental body, and we see this in the text. He abides: he is usually engaged with.
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 26, 2003
        Dear Michael,
        as to the Kitagirisutta:
        Suan explained that it should be the mental body, and we see this in the
        text. He abides: he is usually engaged with. Viharati: you do something all
        the time, stay with it. This is also said of the satipa.t.thaanas. The eight
        deliverances are the eight vimokkhas: including ruupajhaana and
        aruupajhaana. Contacts: as I understand, this is not in physical sense. He
        experiences.
        I have the Pali Co here, and also the Thai, but it is a difficult text.
        Kaayena phassitvaa ti sahajaatanaamakaayena phusitvaa: having contacted with
        the body of the co-arising (sahajjaata) mental factors (naamakaaya).
        and kaayasakkhii: yo jhaanaphassa.m pa.tama.m phusati, pacchaa nirodha.m
        nibbaana.m sacchikaroti: who has made contact with jhaana for the first
        time, afterwards he realizes nibbaana, which is cessation.
        Thus you see, mental contact.
        Later on : again kaaya as the mental body is used.
        Let me know how it goes.
        Nina.
        op 25-10-2003 23:06 schreef Michael Beisert op mbeisert@...:

        > I understand that the PTS translation refers to 'some person is
        > abiding' while Bhikkhu Bodhi uses 'some person contacts with the body'. But
        > what does this mean??? Abiding in what? The person contacts the body with
        > what?
      • Michael Beisert
        To Nina and Zaw, Tks for your kind responses and valuable comments. With Metta Michael _________________________________________________________________ Surf
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 27, 2003
          To Nina and Zaw,

          Tks for your kind responses and valuable comments.

          With Metta
          Michael

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