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Re: Necessity of jhanas: panna-vimutto and sukkhavipassako

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  • rjkjp1
    -- Dear Dimitry, I add some about this sutta. Nina and Teng Kee may give more: In the commentary to Aane~njasappaaya sutta (MN 106) it is said:
    Message 1 of 36 , Oct 1, 2003
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      --
      Dear Dimitry, I add some about this sutta. Nina and Teng Kee may give
      more: In the commentary to Aane~njasappaaya sutta (MN 106)
      it is said:
      Uparipannasa-Atthakatha 4.67

      Samaapatti.m taava pada.t.thaana.m katvaa vipassana.m
      va.d.dhetvaa
      When he has made the attainment of jhana the proximate cause of
      insight
      and
      increased vipassana,

      arahatta.m ga.nhanto bhikkhu naava.m vaa u.lumpaadiini
      vaa nissaaya

      and he attains arahatship, the bhikkhu who is as it were depending on
      a
      boat
      or a raft

      mahogha.m taritvaa paara.m gacchanto viya na kilamati.
      croses the great flood and reaches the other side, is not tired.

      Sukkhavipassako pana paki.n.nakasa'nkhaare sammasitvaa
      arahatta.m ga.nhanto
      But the person with dry insight who has thoroughly known the
      particular
      conditioned dhammas
      and attains arahatship,

      baahubalena sota.m chinditvaa paara.m gacchanto viya kilamati.
      , after he has as it were cut the stream with much force and reaches
      the
      other side, is tired.
      ___

      Thus we see that the way of using mundane jhana as a basis has this
      advantage too. However not all beings have the accumulations to
      master the jhanas (I mean genuine jhana, not imitation). To use the
      jhanas as basis one must be proficient in them -not just attaining
      them a few times- Or as Teng Kee explained some even when they first
      heard Dhamma also attained mundane jhanas momentarily and then
      nibbana, and this was because of great accumulations over past lives.
      Bhikkhu Bodhi gives some other notes from the commentary of this
      sutta (M.106):
      In the sutta Ananda asks the Buddha, "a bhikkhu is practising
      thus: 'If it were not it would be mine; it will not be and it will
      not be mine. What exists, what has come to be, that I am abandonding.
      Thus he attains equanimity. Venerable sir , does such a one attain
      Nibbana?."......The note by bodhi (1021)from Majjima attahakatha,
      "Anandas question is intended to elicit from the Buddha an account of
      the practice of the dry-insight meditator(sukkhavipassaka) who
      attains arahatship without depending on a jhanic attainment.

      Sutta "This is deathless, namely the liberation of mind through not
      clinging"
      note 1023 Majjhima atthakatha says that the arahstship of the dry-
      insight meditator is intended.
      RobertK


      > In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko (Äìèòðèé
      Àëåêñååâè÷
      > Èâàõíåíêî)" <koleso@i...> wrote:
      > > Dear Robert,
      > >
      > > >> > Again buddhaghosa and dhammapala recorded down that it is not
      > > r> recommeded for sukhavipasa because it is too hard.See
      > anenjasapaya
      > > r> sutta in MN.
      > > >>________
      > > r> Dear Teng Kee,
      > > r> Could you quote the passage where Dhammapala and Buddhaghosa
      > > r> recommend against sukkhavipassaka?
      > >
      > > In the commentary to Aane~njasappaaya sutta (MN 106) it is said:
      > >
      > > Uparipannasa-Atthakatha 4.67
      > >
      > > Samaapatti.m taava pada.t.thaana.m katvaa vipassana.m va.d.dhetvaa
      > > arahatta.m ga.nhanto bhikkhu naava.m vaa u.lumpaadiini vaa
      nissaaya
      > > mahogha.m taritvaa paara.m gacchanto viya na kilamati.
      > Sukkhavipassako
      > > pana paki.n.nakasa'nkhaare sammasitvaa arahatta.m ga.nhanto
      > > baahubalena sota.m chinditvaa paara.m gacchanto viya kilamati.
      > >
      > > Dimitry
    • Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko (������� �������
      Dear Robert, Thank you for translation. According to this passage the way of sukkhavipassaka is quite difficult. Are there any certain examples of
      Message 36 of 36 , Oct 2, 2003
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        Dear Robert,

        Thank you for translation. According to this passage the way of
        sukkhavipassaka is quite difficult.

        Are there any certain examples of sukkhavipassaka in the Tipitaka?

        r> However not all beings have the accumulations to
        r> master the jhanas (I mean genuine jhana, not imitation).

        Certainly not all - peta can't do it.
        Yet in my opinion any person who is able to fall in love deeply, is able as
        well to develop more skillful jhana.

        "Lakkhana jhana" is a part and parcel of overall Buddhist jhana practice.

        Dimitry
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