Re: [Pali] Re: Necessity of jhanas: panna-vimutto and sukkhavipassako
- Ong Teng Kee,
OTK> You said kitagiri sutta com said sukkavipasaka are without
I said sukkhavipassakaa are with jhana.
OTK> Please learn pali correctly-this com mentioned 5 arahant
OTK> ,it means 4 arahant with each one type of jhana plus the fifth
OTK> one without jhana.
Kitagiri sutta commentary says:
Pa~n~naavimuttoti pa~n~naaya vimutto. So sukkhavipassako, catuuhi
jhaanehi vu.t.thaaya arahatta.m pattaa cattaaro caati imesa.m vasena
pa~ncavidhova hoti. Paa.li panettha a.t.thavimokkhapa.tikkhepavaseneva
aagataa. Yathaaha- "na heva kho a.t.tha vimokkhe kaayena phusitvaa
viharati, pa~n~naaya cassa disvaa aasavaa parikkhii.naa honti. Aya.m
vuccati puggalo pa~n~naavimutto"ti.
Thank you for correction, it seems you are right.
OTK> The theory came from putta sutta but not buddhaghosa.
Putta sutta (AN 2.87) says:
"Katha~nca, bhikkhave, puggalo sama.napu.n.dariiko hoti? Idha,
bhikkhave, bhikkhu aasavaana.m khayaa anaasava.m cetovimutti.m
pa~n~naavimutti.m di.t.theva dhamme saya.m abhi~n~naa sacchikatvaa
upasampajja viharati, no ca kho a.t.tha vimokkhe kaayena phusitvaa
viharati. Eva.m kho, bhikkhave, puggalo sama.napu.n.dariiko hoti.
Bhikkhus, who is the bloomed recluse?
Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu has destroyed desires, released the mind
from desires and released through wisdom, here and now having realized
abides. He has not experienced the eight releases with the body.
Bhikkhus, this is the bloomed recluse
Surely one released through wisdom has not reached all eight
emancipations, but only few of them.
So the theory of sukkhavipassaka came from Ven. Buddhaghosa.
OTK> Again buddhaghosa and dhammapala recorded down that it is not recommeded for
OTK> sukhavipasa because it is too hard.
Going without jhana is indeed very tiresome.
- Dear Robert,
Thank you for translation. According to this passage the way of
sukkhavipassaka is quite difficult.
Are there any certain examples of sukkhavipassaka in the Tipitaka?
r> However not all beings have the accumulations to
r> master the jhanas (I mean genuine jhana, not imitation).
Certainly not all - peta can't do it.
Yet in my opinion any person who is able to fall in love deeply, is able as
well to develop more skillful jhana.
"Lakkhana jhana" is a part and parcel of overall Buddhist jhana practice.