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Re: [Pali] Re: Necessity of jhanas: panna-vimutto and sukkhavipassako

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  • Frank Kuan
    ... Hi Ong, Even the pali canon is not necessarily pure. Certain bodies of suttas came later than others. This whole theory about Arahants without jhana
    Message 1 of 36 , Sep 28, 2003
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      --- Ong Teng Kee <ongtkee@...> wrote:
      > Dear Frank,
      > The theory of arahant without any jhana came from
      > putta sutta in AN 4 th nipata as I have said many
      > times.The theory is not from com and sub com just
      > like those three lives theory of paticcasamupada
      > came from mahanidana sutta.
      >

      Hi Ong,
      Even the pali canon is not necessarily pure. Certain
      bodies of suttas came later than others.

      This whole theory about Arahants without jhana
      mastery just seems absurd to me. It would be like
      having a world class physicist who sucked at math.
      Possible, but what are the odds? If we practice right
      concentration diligently as prescribed, I would find
      it odd that one could become proficient at
      concentration without also experiencing a host of
      physiological transformations and jhanic symptoms.
      Just as one who aspired and worked hard to be a
      physicist could not help but also be quite competent
      in many other subject areas.
      If there are any arahants out here who are masters
      of samadhi without any experience with jhanic
      symptoms, please step forward and clear up this
      matter. Otherwise, it would seem more prudent to
      dismiss this theory and cultivate the path the way the
      vast majority of arahants accounted for in the early
      suttas did (with jhana practice).

      -fk



      -fk

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    • Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko (������� ��������
      Dear Robert, Thank you for translation. According to this passage the way of sukkhavipassaka is quite difficult. Are there any certain examples of
      Message 36 of 36 , Oct 2, 2003
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        Dear Robert,

        Thank you for translation. According to this passage the way of
        sukkhavipassaka is quite difficult.

        Are there any certain examples of sukkhavipassaka in the Tipitaka?

        r> However not all beings have the accumulations to
        r> master the jhanas (I mean genuine jhana, not imitation).

        Certainly not all - peta can't do it.
        Yet in my opinion any person who is able to fall in love deeply, is able as
        well to develop more skillful jhana.

        "Lakkhana jhana" is a part and parcel of overall Buddhist jhana practice.

        Dimitry
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