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Re: [Pali] Re: question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya

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  • Piya Tan
    Dear Group, Those who have requested for the paper of Monastics and Money and received it, please note that you have to install Times Norman fonts in your
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 1 5:30 PM
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      Dear Group,

      Those who have requested for the paper of "Monastics and Money" and received
      it, please note that you have to install "Times Norman" fonts in your
      computer so that all the Pali words read correctly.

      Sukhi

      P
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Piya Tan" <libris@...>
      To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya


      > Dear Christine,
      >
      > Is this what you are looking for as attached?
      >
      > Sukhi.
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "christine_forsyth" <cforsyth@...>
      > To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 4:14 AM
      > Subject: [Pali] Re: question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya
      >
      >
      > > Dear Selamat and Group,
      > >
      > > I don't see Piya's article or a link - where should I be looking?
      > > Also, here is the sutta Lennart mentioned.
      > >
      > > metta and peace,
      > > Christine
      > > ---The trouble is that you think you have time---
      > > ==================================================
      > > Samyutta Nikaya 42 Gamanisamyutta "10 Maniculaka" The Connected
      > > Discourses of the Buddha. A New Translation of the Samyutta Nikaya by
      > > Bhikkhu Bodhi p.1346
      > >
      > > On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Rajagaha in the
      > > Bamboo Grove, the Squirrel Sanctuary. Now on that occasion the
      > > members of the king's retinue had assembled in the royal palace and
      > > were sitting together when the following conversaion arose:
      > > "Gold and silver are allowable for the ascetics following the Sakyan
      > > son; the ascetics following the Sakyan son consent to gold and
      > > silver; the ascetics following the Sakyan son accept gold and silver."
      > > Now on that occasion Maniculaka the headman was sitting in that
      > > assembly. Then Maniculaka the headman said to that assembly: "Do not
      > > speak thus, masters. Gold and silver are not allowable for the
      > > ascetics following the Sakyan son; the ascetics following the Sakyan
      > > son do not consent to gold and silver; the ascetics following the
      > > Sakyan son do not accept gold and silver. They have renounced
      > > jewellery and gold; they have given up the use of gold and silver."
      > > [350] And Maniculaka was able to convince that assembly.
      > > Then Maniculaka approached the Blessed One, paid homange to him, and
      > > sat down to one side. Sitting to one side, he reported to the
      > > Blessed One all that had happened, adding: "I hope, venerable sir,
      > > that when I answered thus I stated what has been said by the Blessed
      > > One and did not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact; that
      > > I explained in accordance with the Dhamma, and that no reasonable
      > > consequence of my statement gives ground for criticism."
      > > "For sure, headman, when you answered thus you stated what has been
      > > said by me and did not misrepresent me with what is contrary to fact;
      > > you explained in accordance with the Dhamma, and no reasonable
      > > consequence of your statement gives ground for criticism. For,
      > > headman, gold and silver are not allowable for the ascetics following
      > > the Sakyan son; the ascetics following the Sakyan son do not consent
      > > to gold and silver; the ascetics following the Sakyan son do not
      > > accept gold and silver. They have renounced jewellery and gold; they
      > > have given up the use of gold and silver. If gold and silver are
      > > allowable for anyone, the five cords of sensual pleasure are
      > > allowable for him. If the five cords of sensual pleasure are
      > > allowable for anyone, you can definitely consider him to be one who
      > > does not have the character of an ascetic or of a follower of the
      > > Sakyan son.
      > > "Further, headman, I say this: 'Straw may be sought by one needing
      > > straw; timber may be sought by one needing timber; a cart may be
      > > sought by one needing a cart; a workman may be sought by one needing
      > > a workman'.
      > > But I do not say that there is any method by which gold and silver
      > > may be consented to or sought."
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
      > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
      > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
      > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
      > web only.
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
      > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
      > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
      > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
      web only.
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • cbn
      Dear Lennart, anumodana ... From: Lennart Lopin To: Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [Pali]
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 2 11:21 PM
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        Dear Lennart, anumodana
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Lennart Lopin" <lenni_lop@...>
        To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:02 PM
        Subject: Re: [Pali] question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya


        > Hi Selamat,
        >
        > There is quite an enlightening sutta on this subject found in the Samyutta
        > Nikaya, 42 (Gamani Samyutta), No 10 "Maniculam". Unfortunately i havent
        got
        > the text in English (not found at accesstoinsight)
        >
        > mettaya, Lennart
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "nana cbn" <selamat@...>
        > To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:22 AM
        > Subject: [Pali] question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya
        >
        >
        > > Dear all,
        > > would you please info me where I could find references on Vinaya
        > concerning
        > > monk, gold and money in Pali Tipitaka.
        > > Any inputs would be greatly appreciated.
        > > anumodana
        > >
        > > selamat
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Everett Thiele <rett@...>
        > > To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 2:33 PM
        > > Subject: [Pali] text question about Dhp-a
        > >
        > >
        > > > Hi All,
        > > >
        > > > Since the Dhp-a authorship has been discussed here lately I thought
        I'd
        > > > take the chance to ask for help with a passage in the HC Norman
        edition
        > > > that I've found puzzling. I can't make any sense of it as it stands,
        > > > but a very slight change seems to make all the pieces of the puzzle
        > > > fall together. If anyone else here is interested, I'd be happy to
        > > > receive feedback on it.
        > > >
        > > > Norman, H.C. (ed), _The Commentary on the Dhammapada_, PTS, 1970
        > > >
        > > > Vol I, Page 48, lines 11-13
        > > >
        > > > The context is that a female deer (migii) has just had her three
        > > > offspring eaten by her nemesis in the form of a female leopard
        > > > (diipinii). Here's the relevant part of the text as it stands in
        Norman:
        > > >
        > > > Migii: 'mara.nakaale imaaya me tikkhattu.m puttakaa khaadi, taa idaani
        > > > mam pi khaadissati[...]' ti...
        > > >
        > > > I can't get this to fit together grammatically (subject/verb
        > > > agreement), so my question is whether the 'taa' should actually be
        > > > attached to 'khaadi' (I also think the scope of the 'iti' might not
        > > > need to include the word 'mara.nakaale', but that's a separate issue)
        > > > So perhaps it should be revised to look like this:
        > > >
        > > > Migii mara.nakaale: 'imaaya me tikkhattu.m puttakaa khaaditaa, idaani
        > > > mam pi khaadissati[...]' ti...
        > > >
        > > > tr. At the moment of death the deer thought, "by her three times my
        > > > sons have been eaten, now she will eat me as well..."
        > > >
        > > > Is there some sense to the original text that I just can't see? Is my
        > > > rendering cogent? And is it plausible to connect the 'taa' with
        > > > the 'khaadi' like that? I've never looked at the manuscripts or source
        > > > editions, so I don't know whether the separation is there, or is HC
        > > > Norman's interpretation. (though I assume the western punctuation is
        > > > Norman's addition, which is why I readily change the scope of the
        iti).
        > > >
        > > > A possibly relevant variant is that acc. to Norman the Burmese edition
        > > > takes the 'taa' as a '-tvaa' and connects it with khaadi. I can't make
        > > > sense of that reading either, though it does set a precedent for the
        > > > possible connection.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks for any help,
        > > >
        > > > a confused Pali student.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
        > > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
        > > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
        or
        > > web only.
        > > >
        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
        > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
        > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
        > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
        > web only.
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
        > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
        > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
        > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
        web only.
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • cbn
        Ven Sir, anumodana. selamat ... From: Piya Tan To: Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [Pali]
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 2 11:23 PM
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          Ven Sir,
          anumodana.

          selamat
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Piya Tan" <libris@...>
          To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:41 PM
          Subject: Re: [Pali] question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya


          > Dear Selamat,
          >
          > Here is my paper (used in my sutta classes). Hope it helps you. However it
          > is copyrighted.
          >
          > BTW "Selamat" in Malay and Bahasa Indonesia means "safe" as in "Selamat
          > Pagi" (Good morning), "Selamat Jalan" (Bon Voyages), etc.
          >
          > Sukhi.
          >
          > Piya
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "nana cbn" <selamat@...>
          > To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 4:22 PM
          > Subject: [Pali] question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya
          >
          >
          > > Dear all,
          > > would you please info me where I could find references on Vinaya
          > concerning
          > > monk, gold and money in Pali Tipitaka.
          > > Any inputs would be greatly appreciated.
          > > anumodana
          > >
          > > selamat
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: Everett Thiele <rett@...>
          > > To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 2:33 PM
          > > Subject: [Pali] text question about Dhp-a
          > >
          > >
          > > > Hi All,
          > > >
          > > > Since the Dhp-a authorship has been discussed here lately I thought
          I'd
          > > > take the chance to ask for help with a passage in the HC Norman
          edition
          > > > that I've found puzzling. I can't make any sense of it as it stands,
          > > > but a very slight change seems to make all the pieces of the puzzle
          > > > fall together. If anyone else here is interested, I'd be happy to
          > > > receive feedback on it.
          > > >
          > > > Norman, H.C. (ed), _The Commentary on the Dhammapada_, PTS, 1970
          > > >
          > > > Vol I, Page 48, lines 11-13
          > > >
          > > > The context is that a female deer (migii) has just had her three
          > > > offspring eaten by her nemesis in the form of a female leopard
          > > > (diipinii). Here's the relevant part of the text as it stands in
          Norman:
          > > >
          > > > Migii: 'mara.nakaale imaaya me tikkhattu.m puttakaa khaadi, taa idaani
          > > > mam pi khaadissati[...]' ti...
          > > >
          > > > I can't get this to fit together grammatically (subject/verb
          > > > agreement), so my question is whether the 'taa' should actually be
          > > > attached to 'khaadi' (I also think the scope of the 'iti' might not
          > > > need to include the word 'mara.nakaale', but that's a separate issue)
          > > > So perhaps it should be revised to look like this:
          > > >
          > > > Migii mara.nakaale: 'imaaya me tikkhattu.m puttakaa khaaditaa, idaani
          > > > mam pi khaadissati[...]' ti...
          > > >
          > > > tr. At the moment of death the deer thought, "by her three times my
          > > > sons have been eaten, now she will eat me as well..."
          > > >
          > > > Is there some sense to the original text that I just can't see? Is my
          > > > rendering cogent? And is it plausible to connect the 'taa' with
          > > > the 'khaadi' like that? I've never looked at the manuscripts or source
          > > > editions, so I don't know whether the separation is there, or is HC
          > > > Norman's interpretation. (though I assume the western punctuation is
          > > > Norman's addition, which is why I readily change the scope of the
          iti).
          > > >
          > > > A possibly relevant variant is that acc. to Norman the Burmese edition
          > > > takes the 'taa' as a '-tvaa' and connects it with khaadi. I can't make
          > > > sense of that reading either, though it does set a precedent for the
          > > > possible connection.
          > > >
          > > > Thanks for any help,
          > > >
          > > > a confused Pali student.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
          > > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
          > > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
          or
          > > web only.
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
          > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
          > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
          > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
          > web only.
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
          > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
          > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
          > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
          web only.
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • cbn
          Dear all anumodana, recently i do have a serious discussion on this matter with many Theravadan monks in Indonesia. pro and cons arose, should greatly
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 2 11:26 PM
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            Dear all anumodana,
            recently i do have a serious discussion on this matter with many Theravadan
            monks in Indonesia. pro and cons arose, should greatly appreciate if you
            could give some info when i will ask you some info next time.

            muditacittena,
            selamat

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "christine_forsyth" <cforsyth@...>
            To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 3:14 AM
            Subject: [Pali] Re: question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya


            > Dear Selamat and Group,
            >
            > I don't see Piya's article or a link - where should I be looking?
            > Also, here is the sutta Lennart mentioned.
            >
            > metta and peace,
            > Christine
            > ---The trouble is that you think you have time---
            > ==================================================
            > Samyutta Nikaya 42 Gamanisamyutta "10 Maniculaka" The Connected
            > Discourses of the Buddha. A New Translation of the Samyutta Nikaya by
            > Bhikkhu Bodhi p.1346
            >
            > On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Rajagaha in the
            > Bamboo Grove, the Squirrel Sanctuary. Now on that occasion the
            > members of the king's retinue had assembled in the royal palace and
            > were sitting together when the following conversaion arose:
            > "Gold and silver are allowable for the ascetics following the Sakyan
            > son; the ascetics following the Sakyan son consent to gold and
            > silver; the ascetics following the Sakyan son accept gold and silver."
            > Now on that occasion Maniculaka the headman was sitting in that
            > assembly. Then Maniculaka the headman said to that assembly: "Do not
            > speak thus, masters. Gold and silver are not allowable for the
            > ascetics following the Sakyan son; the ascetics following the Sakyan
            > son do not consent to gold and silver; the ascetics following the
            > Sakyan son do not accept gold and silver. They have renounced
            > jewellery and gold; they have given up the use of gold and silver."
            > [350] And Maniculaka was able to convince that assembly.
            > Then Maniculaka approached the Blessed One, paid homange to him, and
            > sat down to one side. Sitting to one side, he reported to the
            > Blessed One all that had happened, adding: "I hope, venerable sir,
            > that when I answered thus I stated what has been said by the Blessed
            > One and did not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact; that
            > I explained in accordance with the Dhamma, and that no reasonable
            > consequence of my statement gives ground for criticism."
            > "For sure, headman, when you answered thus you stated what has been
            > said by me and did not misrepresent me with what is contrary to fact;
            > you explained in accordance with the Dhamma, and no reasonable
            > consequence of your statement gives ground for criticism. For,
            > headman, gold and silver are not allowable for the ascetics following
            > the Sakyan son; the ascetics following the Sakyan son do not consent
            > to gold and silver; the ascetics following the Sakyan son do not
            > accept gold and silver. They have renounced jewellery and gold; they
            > have given up the use of gold and silver. If gold and silver are
            > allowable for anyone, the five cords of sensual pleasure are
            > allowable for him. If the five cords of sensual pleasure are
            > allowable for anyone, you can definitely consider him to be one who
            > does not have the character of an ascetic or of a follower of the
            > Sakyan son.
            > "Further, headman, I say this: 'Straw may be sought by one needing
            > straw; timber may be sought by one needing timber; a cart may be
            > sought by one needing a cart; a workman may be sought by one needing
            > a workman'.
            > But I do not say that there is any method by which gold and silver
            > may be consented to or sought."
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
            > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
            web only.
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • sese2k3
            Dear Piya, I have received your paper of Monastic and Money in my email. Thank you very much for your help. But I have some confusion about the fonts that
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 3 3:32 AM
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              Dear Piya,

              I have received your paper of "Monastic and Money" in my email.
              Thank you very much for your help.
              But I have some confusion about the fonts that you mentioned in our
              groups mail. Is "Times Norman" same with "Times New Roman" ? If it
              isn't, can you help me from what websites I can install it ?

              Sukhi,

              Sese


              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Piya Tan" <libris@s...> wrote:
              > Dear Group,
              >
              > Those who have requested for the paper of "Monastics and Money" and
              received
              > it, please note that you have to install "Times Norman" fonts in
              your
              > computer so that all the Pali words read correctly.
              >
              > Sukhi
              >
              > P
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Piya Tan" <libris@s...>
              > To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:00 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: question about monk, gold and money in
              Vinaya
              >
              >
              > > Dear Christine,
              > >
              > > Is this what you are looking for as attached?
              > >
              > > Sukhi.
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "christine_forsyth" <cforsyth@v...>
              > > To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 4:14 AM
              > > Subject: [Pali] Re: question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya
              > >
              > >
              > > > Dear Selamat and Group,
              > > >
              > > > I don't see Piya's article or a link - where should I be
              looking?
              > > > Also, here is the sutta Lennart mentioned.
              > > >
              > > > metta and peace,
              > > > Christine
              > > > ---The trouble is that you think you have time---
              > > > ==================================================
              > > > Samyutta Nikaya 42 Gamanisamyutta "10 Maniculaka" The Connected
              > > > Discourses of the Buddha. A New Translation of the Samyutta
              Nikaya by
              > > > Bhikkhu Bodhi p.1346
              > > >
              > > > On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Rajagaha in the
              > > > Bamboo Grove, the Squirrel Sanctuary. Now on that occasion the
              > > > members of the king's retinue had assembled in the royal palace
              and
              > > > were sitting together when the following conversaion arose:
              > > > "Gold and silver are allowable for the ascetics following the
              Sakyan
              > > > son; the ascetics following the Sakyan son consent to gold and
              > > > silver; the ascetics following the Sakyan son accept gold and
              silver."
              > > > Now on that occasion Maniculaka the headman was sitting in that
              > > > assembly. Then Maniculaka the headman said to that
              assembly: "Do not
              > > > speak thus, masters. Gold and silver are not allowable for the
              > > > ascetics following the Sakyan son; the ascetics following the
              Sakyan
              > > > son do not consent to gold and silver; the ascetics following
              the
              > > > Sakyan son do not accept gold and silver. They have renounced
              > > > jewellery and gold; they have given up the use of gold and
              silver."
              > > > [350] And Maniculaka was able to convince that assembly.
              > > > Then Maniculaka approached the Blessed One, paid homange to
              him, and
              > > > sat down to one side. Sitting to one side, he reported to the
              > > > Blessed One all that had happened, adding: "I hope, venerable
              sir,
              > > > that when I answered thus I stated what has been said by the
              Blessed
              > > > One and did not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact;
              that
              > > > I explained in accordance with the Dhamma, and that no
              reasonable
              > > > consequence of my statement gives ground for criticism."
              > > > "For sure, headman, when you answered thus you stated what has
              been
              > > > said by me and did not misrepresent me with what is contrary to
              fact;
              > > > you explained in accordance with the Dhamma, and no reasonable
              > > > consequence of your statement gives ground for criticism. For,
              > > > headman, gold and silver are not allowable for the ascetics
              following
              > > > the Sakyan son; the ascetics following the Sakyan son do not
              consent
              > > > to gold and silver; the ascetics following the Sakyan son do not
              > > > accept gold and silver. They have renounced jewellery and
              gold; they
              > > > have given up the use of gold and silver. If gold and silver
              are
              > > > allowable for anyone, the five cords of sensual pleasure are
              > > > allowable for him. If the five cords of sensual pleasure are
              > > > allowable for anyone, you can definitely consider him to be one
              who
              > > > does not have the character of an ascetic or of a follower of
              the
              > > > Sakyan son.
              > > > "Further, headman, I say this: 'Straw may be sought by one
              needing
              > > > straw; timber may be sought by one needing timber; a cart may be
              > > > sought by one needing a cart; a workman may be sought by one
              needing
              > > > a workman'.
              > > > But I do not say that there is any method by which gold and
              silver
              > > > may be consented to or sought."
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              > > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
              > > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
              > > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
              digest or
              > > web only.
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
              > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
              > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
              > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
              digest or
              > web only.
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
            • Ong Yong Peng
              Dear Sese, Piya and friends, the Norman fonts can be downloaded here: http://jbe.gold.ac.uk/pali/fonts/ For PC users, the file is tm-norm.zip. For Mac users,
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 3 4:42 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Sese, Piya and friends,

                the Norman fonts can be downloaded here:
                http://jbe.gold.ac.uk/pali/fonts/

                For PC users, the file is tm-norm.zip.
                For Mac users, the file is norm_sea.hqx

                Times Norman fonts is different from Times New Roman fonts. It was
                created by professor Norman to display romanised pali fonts with
                diacritics.

                metta,
                Yong Peng

                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, sese2k3 wrote:
                Is "Times Norman" same with "Times New Roman" ? If it isn't, can you
                help me from what websites I can install it ?
              • Piya Tan
                Dear Sese, You need both. Sukhi. Piya ... From: sese2k3 To: Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 6:32 PM Subject: [Pali]
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 3 5:45 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Sese,

                  You need both.

                  Sukhi.

                  Piya

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "sese2k3" <sese2k3@...>
                  To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 6:32 PM
                  Subject: [Pali] Re: question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya


                  > Dear Piya,
                  >
                  > I have received your paper of "Monastic and Money" in my email.
                  > Thank you very much for your help.
                  > But I have some confusion about the fonts that you mentioned in our
                  > groups mail. Is "Times Norman" same with "Times New Roman" ? If it
                  > isn't, can you help me from what websites I can install it ?
                  >
                  > Sukhi,
                  >
                  > Sese
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Piya Tan" <libris@s...> wrote:
                  > > Dear Group,
                  > >
                  > > Those who have requested for the paper of "Monastics and Money" and
                  > received
                  > > it, please note that you have to install "Times Norman" fonts in
                  > your
                  > > computer so that all the Pali words read correctly.
                  > >
                  > > Sukhi
                  > >
                  > > P
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "Piya Tan" <libris@s...>
                  > > To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:00 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: question about monk, gold and money in
                  > Vinaya
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > Dear Christine,
                  > > >
                  > > > Is this what you are looking for as attached?
                  > > >
                  > > > Sukhi.
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: "christine_forsyth" <cforsyth@v...>
                  > > > To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 4:14 AM
                  > > > Subject: [Pali] Re: question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > > Dear Selamat and Group,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I don't see Piya's article or a link - where should I be
                  > looking?
                  > > > > Also, here is the sutta Lennart mentioned.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > metta and peace,
                  > > > > Christine
                  > > > > ---The trouble is that you think you have time---
                  > > > > ==================================================
                  > > > > Samyutta Nikaya 42 Gamanisamyutta "10 Maniculaka" The Connected
                  > > > > Discourses of the Buddha. A New Translation of the Samyutta
                  > Nikaya by
                  > > > > Bhikkhu Bodhi p.1346
                  > > > >
                  > > > > On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Rajagaha in the
                  > > > > Bamboo Grove, the Squirrel Sanctuary. Now on that occasion the
                  > > > > members of the king's retinue had assembled in the royal palace
                  > and
                  > > > > were sitting together when the following conversaion arose:
                  > > > > "Gold and silver are allowable for the ascetics following the
                  > Sakyan
                  > > > > son; the ascetics following the Sakyan son consent to gold and
                  > > > > silver; the ascetics following the Sakyan son accept gold and
                  > silver."
                  > > > > Now on that occasion Maniculaka the headman was sitting in that
                  > > > > assembly. Then Maniculaka the headman said to that
                  > assembly: "Do not
                  > > > > speak thus, masters. Gold and silver are not allowable for the
                  > > > > ascetics following the Sakyan son; the ascetics following the
                  > Sakyan
                  > > > > son do not consent to gold and silver; the ascetics following
                  > the
                  > > > > Sakyan son do not accept gold and silver. They have renounced
                  > > > > jewellery and gold; they have given up the use of gold and
                  > silver."
                  > > > > [350] And Maniculaka was able to convince that assembly.
                  > > > > Then Maniculaka approached the Blessed One, paid homange to
                  > him, and
                  > > > > sat down to one side. Sitting to one side, he reported to the
                  > > > > Blessed One all that had happened, adding: "I hope, venerable
                  > sir,
                  > > > > that when I answered thus I stated what has been said by the
                  > Blessed
                  > > > > One and did not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact;
                  > that
                  > > > > I explained in accordance with the Dhamma, and that no
                  > reasonable
                  > > > > consequence of my statement gives ground for criticism."
                  > > > > "For sure, headman, when you answered thus you stated what has
                  > been
                  > > > > said by me and did not misrepresent me with what is contrary to
                  > fact;
                  > > > > you explained in accordance with the Dhamma, and no reasonable
                  > > > > consequence of your statement gives ground for criticism. For,
                  > > > > headman, gold and silver are not allowable for the ascetics
                  > following
                  > > > > the Sakyan son; the ascetics following the Sakyan son do not
                  > consent
                  > > > > to gold and silver; the ascetics following the Sakyan son do not
                  > > > > accept gold and silver. They have renounced jewellery and
                  > gold; they
                  > > > > have given up the use of gold and silver. If gold and silver
                  > are
                  > > > > allowable for anyone, the five cords of sensual pleasure are
                  > > > > allowable for him. If the five cords of sensual pleasure are
                  > > > > allowable for anyone, you can definitely consider him to be one
                  > who
                  > > > > does not have the character of an ascetic or of a follower of
                  > the
                  > > > > Sakyan son.
                  > > > > "Further, headman, I say this: 'Straw may be sought by one
                  > needing
                  > > > > straw; timber may be sought by one needing timber; a cart may be
                  > > > > sought by one needing a cart; a workman may be sought by one
                  > needing
                  > > > > a workman'.
                  > > > > But I do not say that there is any method by which gold and
                  > silver
                  > > > > may be consented to or sought."
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                  > > > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                  > > > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                  > > > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
                  > digest or
                  > > > web only.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                  > > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                  > > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
                  > digest or
                  > > web only.
                  > > >
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                  > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                  > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                  > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                  > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
                  web only.
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • selamat@dsgb.or.id
                  Ven. Piya, I m sorry, My name is Selamat from Dhamma Study Group Bogor. You just send me the file from other address. anumodana. selamat ... From: Ong Yong
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 3 5:44 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Ven. Piya,
                    I'm sorry,
                    My name is Selamat from Dhamma Study Group Bogor.
                    You just send me the file from other address. anumodana.

                    selamat
                    ------original message------
                    From: "Ong Yong Peng" <ypong001@...>
                    To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: 03 Aug 2003 11:42:10
                    Subject: [Pali] Re: question about monk, gold and money in Vinaya

                    Dear Sese, Piya and friends,

                    the Norman fonts can be downloaded here:
                    http://jbe.gold.ac.uk/pali/fonts/

                    For PC users, the file is tm-norm.zip.
                    For Mac users, the file is norm_sea.hqx

                    Times Norman fonts is different from Times New Roman fonts. It was
                    created by professor Norman to display romanised pali fonts with
                    diacritics.

                    metta,
                    Yong Peng

                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, sese2k3 wrote:
                    Is "Times Norman" same with "Times New Roman" ? If it isn't, can you
                    help me from what websites I can install it ?



                    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                    Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • sese2k3
                    Dear Yong Peng, Your information very helpful for me. Thank you very much. May all beings be happy. metta, Sese
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 4 3:29 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Yong Peng,

                      Your information very helpful for me.
                      Thank you very much.

                      May all beings be happy.

                      metta,

                      Sese

                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <ypong001@y...> wrote:
                      > Dear Sese, Piya and friends,
                      >
                      > the Norman fonts can be downloaded here:
                      > http://jbe.gold.ac.uk/pali/fonts/
                      >
                      > For PC users, the file is tm-norm.zip.
                      > For Mac users, the file is norm_sea.hqx
                      >
                      > Times Norman fonts is different from Times New Roman fonts. It was
                      > created by professor Norman to display romanised pali fonts with
                      > diacritics.
                      >
                      > metta,
                      > Yong Peng
                      >
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.