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nibbahati

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  • Piya Tan
    Dear Nina and friends, I m proof-reading and revising my translation of the Miga,saalaa Sutta (A 6.44, 10.75), an interesting and challenging sutta. I m using
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 30, 2003
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      Dear Nina and friends,

      I'm proof-reading and revising my translation of the Miga,saalaa Sutta (A
      6.44, 10.75), an interesting and challenging sutta. I'm using this sutta
      in a forthcoming Sutta Discovery class here.

      I need someone's help with the word "nibbahati" that could fit into two
      possible translations of "dhamma,sota":

      (1) Dharma ear
      (2) Stream of the Dharma

      PED defines "nibbahati" as "to stretch out; to pull put" which is not very
      helpful.

      I wonder if KR Norman is watching us...

      Excerpts from my notes:

      “Dharma stream,” dhamma,sota. Hare (S:WH 5:96 etc) renders it as “ear of
      Dharma”; while Hare (S:WH 3:248 etc) & Bodhi (S:B 1:564 etc) render it as
      “stream of Dharma”. Occurrences: ~ sampanna (S 2:42, 43, 45, 58 f, 80);
      ~sampanna [“entered the stream of Dharma”] (A 3:285-288, 5:356 f, 360); ~.m
      upaanayi [“carried along by the stream of Dharma”] (Ap 1:101 Subhadda Thera
      9); ~o nibbahati [“the stream of Dharma”] (A 3:350 f, 5:140, 143). Comy
      here explains dhamma,soto nibbahati as “suura.m hutvaa (having become a
      hero) pavattamaana,vipassan,ña.na.m (keeping up insight knowledge),
      ariya,bhuumi sampaapeti (“attains to the Noble Ground”) (AA 3:375; cf
      Masefield 1986:79). The Pali sota has two Skt forms: (a) 'srotas /'sru
      su.naati, he hears), the ear; (b) srotas srotas /sru, savati (it flows),
      stream (of water). Comparing the Pali occurrences of the sentences with
      their BHS cognates or parallels in the AAgama should provide insight into
      their usages. Dhammavuddho thinks that sot’apatti [sot’aapanna =
      “stream-winner”] usually rendered as “stream-entry” could also be
      translated as “ear-entry” (1999:6), suggesting.that one could gain the
      first stage of Sainthood through skillful listening to the Dharma (the
      thesis of his 1999 article). See Introd (3).
      “Carries…along,” nibbahati. Hare thinks that “Nibbahati is either from
      /barh, to increase, or /vah, to carry, with nis, ‘out,’ ‘to completion’.”
      (A:WH 3:248 n1).

      Thanks & Sukhi.

      Piya


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • nina van gorkom
      Dear Piya, ... Hare thinks that “Nibbahati is either from ... N: You have many interesting notes. I found two stems of bahati:1: to pull, 2: to increase.
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 1, 2003
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        Dear Piya,
        op 01-07-2003 06:16 schreef Piya Tan op libris@...:
        > I need someone's help with the word "nibbahati" that could fit into two
        > possible translations of "dhamma,sota":
        >
        > (1) Dharma ear
        > (2) Stream of the Dharma
        >
        > PED defines "nibbahati" as "to stretch out; to pull put" which is not very
        > helpful....
        Hare thinks that “Nibbahati is either from
        > /barh, to increase, or /vah, to carry, with nis, out,’ to completion’
        N: You have many interesting notes.
        I found two stems of bahati:1: to pull, 2: to increase.
        prefix ni: out, down, in, into.
        as you say, Hare mentioned: “Dharma stream, dhamma,sota.
        N:I looked up sota, it can mean the eightfold Path.
        I looked at the Thai: <The word dhammasoto nibbahati mean: vipassana ~naa.na
        which has become strong will take (him) along (phaa), which means it causes
        him to attain the state (plane) of the ariyan. Who will know this (nobody
        else will know this). ...>
        I am inclined to stream of Dhamma, looking at the context. I think of the
        eightfold Path.
        Nina.
      • Piya Tan
        Dear Nina, Thanks again very much. Your notes confirmed a couple of things which are hazy from the readings I have here. Jaran has emailed me that he would be
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 2, 2003
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          Dear Nina,

          Thanks again very much. Your notes confirmed a couple of things which are
          hazy from the readings I have here.

          Jaran has emailed me that he would be getting me some of those vital Thai
          CDs. Sadhu!
          Up till now I have not been able to quote the Thai Tripitaka, using mostly
          the PTS edition. The Thai/Siamese edition and translation would throw
          brighter light into my work and understanding of the Suttas.

          It's good to see we are all connected by our common spiritual link with the
          Buddha and our deep love for the Dharma.

          Sukhi.

          Piya

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "nina van gorkom" <nilo@...>
          To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, 02 July, 2003 12:17 PM
          Subject: Re: [Pali] nibbahati


          Dear Piya,
          op 01-07-2003 06:16 schreef Piya Tan op libris@...:
          > I need someone's help with the word "nibbahati" that could fit into two
          > possible translations of "dhamma,sota":
          >
          > (1) Dharma ear
          > (2) Stream of the Dharma
          >
          > PED defines "nibbahati" as "to stretch out; to pull put" which is not very
          > helpful....
          Hare thinks that "Nibbahati is either from
          > /barh, to increase, or /vah, to carry, with nis, out,' to completion'
          N: You have many interesting notes.
          I found two stems of bahati:1: to pull, 2: to increase.
          prefix ni: out, down, in, into.
          as you say, Hare mentioned: "Dharma stream, dhamma,sota.
          N:I looked up sota, it can mean the eightfold Path.
          I looked at the Thai: <The word dhammasoto nibbahati mean: vipassana ~naa.na
          which has become strong will take (him) along (phaa), which means it causes
          him to attain the state (plane) of the ariyan. Who will know this (nobody
          else will know this). ...>
          I am inclined to stream of Dhamma, looking at the context. I think of the
          eightfold Path.
          Nina.



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        • nina van gorkom
          Dear Piya, ... N: It is good you write this on the list so that we all can anumodana. Jaran for his Dhamma gift and you for your kind words, Nina.
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 2, 2003
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            Dear Piya,
            op 02-07-2003 16:24 schreef Piya Tan op libris@...:
            >
            > Jaran has emailed me that he would be getting me some of those vital Thai
            > CDs. Sadhu!
            > It's good to see we are all connected by our common spiritual link with the
            > Buddha and our deep love for the Dharma.
            N: It is good you write this on the list so that we all can anumodana. Jaran
            for his Dhamma gift and you for your kind words,
            Nina.
          • Piya Tan
            Dear Nina & friends, I ve just completed the translation of the Bhaya Vera Sutta for a coming course. The one word that is fascinating is in the title:
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 4, 2003
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              Dear Nina & friends,

              I've just completed the translation of the Bhaya Vera Sutta for a coming
              course. The one word that is fascinating is in the title:

              sabba,lahuso

              So far all my searches suggest the best translation for it is "lightest".

              Could you please look up what the Thai sources say on "sabba,lahuso".

              Sukhi.

              Piya

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "nina van gorkom" <nilo@...>
              To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, 03 July, 2003 12:33 PM
              Subject: Re: [Pali] anumodana


              > Dear Piya,
              > op 02-07-2003 16:24 schreef Piya Tan op libris@...:
              > >
              > > Jaran has emailed me that he would be getting me some of those vital
              Thai
              > > CDs. Sadhu!
              > > It's good to see we are all connected by our common spiritual link with
              the
              > > Buddha and our deep love for the Dharma.
              > N: It is good you write this on the list so that we all can anumodana.
              Jaran
              > for his Dhamma gift and you for your kind words,
              > Nina.
              >
              >
              >
              > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
              > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
              web only.
              > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
              > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
              > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
              > [Discussion] http://tipitaka.suddenlaunch.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • nina van gorkom
              Dear Piya, ... N: I cannot help you here, this volume of M.N. in Thai was out of stock last time. I have it in Pali and also the Co in Pali, but I cannot find
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 5, 2003
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                Dear Piya,
                op 04-07-2003 17:26 schreef Piya Tan op libris@...:
                > I've just completed the translation of the Bhaya Vera Sutta for a coming
                > course. The one word that is fascinating is in the title:
                >
                > sabba,lahuso
                >
                > So far all my searches suggest the best translation for it is "lightest".
                N: I cannot help you here, this volume of M.N. in Thai was out of stock last
                time. I have it in Pali and also the Co in Pali, but I cannot find any extra
                word in the title of the sutta. Where is this word? The title is given as
                Bhaya bhera, but that is the same.
                PED, lahuso: easily offended, and another stem: quickly.
                My Pali Thai has for lahu: light, fast, small, little.
                Nina.
              • Piya Tan
                Dear Nina, Jaran came for my Sutta Discovery class at the Buddhis Fellowship yesterday like a Sung Dynasty Maitreya Buddha with a delicious bag of Sutta
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 8, 2003
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                  Dear Nina,

                  Jaran came for my Sutta Discovery class at the Buddhis Fellowship yesterday
                  like a Sung Dynasty Maitreya Buddha with a delicious bag of Sutta goodies:
                  the Thai Pali Canon, etc. The software he has presented me will make my
                  study and work even more interesting and useful for those who refer to them.

                  I also found the various occurrences of "sabba,lahuso" in the Thai Canon.

                  This does not mean that I do not your advice occasionally: your global
                  presence on the Net is a blessing to those who have an interest in Pali, the
                  Commentaries and Anhidhamma.

                  Best wishes & sukhi.

                  Piya
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "nina van gorkom" <nilo@...>
                  To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 1:59 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Pali] sabba lahuso


                  > Dear Piya,
                  > op 04-07-2003 17:26 schreef Piya Tan op libris@...:
                  > > I've just completed the translation of the Bhaya Vera Sutta for a coming
                  > > course. The one word that is fascinating is in the title:
                  > >
                  > > sabba,lahuso
                  > >
                  > > So far all my searches suggest the best translation for it is
                  "lightest".
                  > N: I cannot help you here, this volume of M.N. in Thai was out of stock
                  last
                  > time. I have it in Pali and also the Co in Pali, but I cannot find any
                  extra
                  > word in the title of the sutta. Where is this word? The title is given as
                  > Bhaya bhera, but that is the same.
                  > PED, lahuso: easily offended, and another stem: quickly.
                  > My Pali Thai has for lahu: light, fast, small, little.
                  > Nina.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                  > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                  > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
                  web only.
                  > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                  > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                  > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                  > [Discussion] http://tipitaka.suddenlaunch.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • nina van gorkom
                  Dear Piya, I am glad things worked out so well. I liked your description of the happy event of receiving the goodies. Now I am still very curious about
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 9, 2003
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                    Dear Piya,
                    I am glad things worked out so well. I liked your description of the happy
                    event of receiving the goodies.
                    Now I am still very curious about sabba,lahuso which I did not see in the
                    title.
                    Best wishes
                    from Nina

                    op 09-07-2003 04:22 schreef Piya Tan op libris@...:

                    > I also found the various occurrences of "sabba,lahuso" in the Thai Canon.
                    >
                  • Piya Tan
                    Dear Nina, My apologies for the slow response, as I am still familiarizing myself with BUDSIR in roman. From my intial understanding on how to use BUDSIR,
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 10, 2003
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                      Dear Nina,

                      My apologies for the slow response, as I am still familiarizing myself with
                      BUDSIR in roman.

                      From my intial understanding on how to use BUDSIR, basically this is what I
                      have found in the searches:

                      sabbalahusoti sabbalahuko...parittakena (eg A.t.thakathaa 16/257, Siamese
                      ed)

                      That's the best I can find with my current skills.

                      Sukhi.

                      Piya

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "nina van gorkom" <nilo@...>
                      To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:27 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Pali] sabba lahuso


                      > Dear Piya,
                      > I am glad things worked out so well. I liked your description of the happy
                      > event of receiving the goodies.
                      > Now I am still very curious about sabba,lahuso which I did not see in the
                      > title.
                      > Best wishes
                      > from Nina
                      >
                      > op 09-07-2003 04:22 schreef Piya Tan op libris@...:
                      >
                      > > I also found the various occurrences of "sabba,lahuso" in the Thai
                      Canon.
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                      > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                      > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
                      web only.
                      > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                      > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                      > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                      > [Discussion] http://tipitaka.suddenlaunch.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
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