Re: translating or not
- "So to substitute God for Deva is a little like exchanging apples for
oranges. However, to help the lay reader, I suppose it is a good idea to
have such words that are left untranslated introduced by a footnote or entry
in a glossary."
this is the position I prefer, too. From getting acquainted with some pali
words readers may improve their understanding of the Dhamma. Still, we
should find proper translations if they exist.
"Yes. I always translate "bhikkhu." Do you need the word "Buddhist"?"
I did't made myself clear enough. In suttas I use only "monk", I specify
it more only when speaking to others without a context, so there is no way
for them to misunderstand it for something else.
"So, maybe "monk" is not the best translation for bhikkhu here [DN2], but
"mendicant" or some other word?"
I see this passage in another way. The Buddha is saying about the
benefits of sama~n~naphala, an so it's stated: "When he has thus gone forth,
he lives restrained by the rules of the monastic code (patimokkha), seeing
danger in the slightest faults. Consummate in his virtue, he guards the
doors of his senses, is possessed of mindfulness and alertness, and is
content." An that's all he says about him. This contentness is a clear and
direct consequence of his going forth and living as a samana.
The next section starts: "And how is a monk consummate in virtue?". Here
I do not see that "a monk" refers to the samana of the previous section. To
me, a bhikkhu is a specific kind of samana. Samana is anyone who dedicates
his/her life to the spiritual (ascetic) practice, and this includes, but is
not limited to monks. From this excerpt I do not conclude whether
"patimokkha" implies that he has ordained of not, but if the sutta doesn't
talk about just one person, it doesn't matter.
- op 02-04-2003 09:48 schreef Rene Salm op rsalm@...:
>Nina: I think so. I have some texts on paatimokkha:
> The paatimokkha is briefly mentioned in par. 42. (He adopts and trains
> himself in the paatimokkha.) Are we
> to assume that this implies ordination and involvement of the sangha? Or
> does bhikkhu here just mean
There are two kinds of Paatimokkha: the Ovaada-paatimokkha and the
aa.naa-paatimokkha. The Ovaada-paatimokkha, the exhortation to the
Paatimokkha, is an important principle of teaching or instruction. The
aa.naa-paatimokkha are the rules of the Vinaya which are an important
foundation to be applied by the monks in their conduct.
We read in the Suma"ngalavilaasinii, the Co to the Mahaapadaana Sutta,
Dialogues of the Buddha II, no. XIV):
<The word ³paatimokkhe²(according to the paatimokkha) means, it liberates
completely, that is, the highest síla; it guards in a supreme way, namely,
it guards happy states; it liberates from danger, the danger of an unhappy
destination. Or it guards happy states and liberates from unhappy states.
Therefore, this síla is called paatimokkha.>
Paati means to guard or protect, and mokkheti means to liberate.