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AN 7.7.8

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  • Derek Cameron
    Hello, All, I only have 15 minutes of internet time per day until next Wednesday or Thursday so this will have to be very brief. I m struggling with optatives,
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 3, 2001
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      Hello, All,

      I only have 15 minutes of internet time per day until next Wednesday
      or Thursday so this will have to be very brief. I'm struggling with
      optatives, datives, and relative clause constructions. Would anyone
      care to look at my attempts at paras 3 and 4 of AN 7.7.8 and offer
      some insights?

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/files/an778.htm

      Thank you,

      Derek.
    • Piya Tan
      Derek, Could you post your lessons/mails here so that it is easier for me to assess and help you. :) P.
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 3, 2001
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        Derek,

        Could you post your lessons/mails here so that it is easier for me to assess and help
        you. :)

        P.

        Derek Cameron wrote:

        > Hello, All,
        >
        > I only have 15 minutes of internet time per day until next Wednesday
        > or Thursday so this will have to be very brief. I'm struggling with
        > optatives, datives, and relative clause constructions. Would anyone
        > care to look at my attempts at paras 3 and 4 of AN 7.7.8 and offer
        > some insights?
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/files/an778.htm
        >
        > Thank you,
        >
        > Derek.
        >
        >
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      • Derek Cameron
        ... to assess and help ... Hi, Piya, I ve removed the file and extracted this part: 3. Aarocayaami vo, bhikkhave, pa.tivedayaami vo, bhikkhave, yathaa etadeva
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 3, 2001
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          --- In Pali@y..., Piya Tan <libris@s...> wrote:
          > Derek,
          >
          > Could you post your lessons/mails here so that it is easier for me
          to assess and help
          > you. :)
          >
          > P.


          Hi, Piya,

          I've removed the file and extracted this part:


          3. Aarocayaami vo, bhikkhave, pa.tivedayaami vo, bhikkhave, yathaa
          etadeva tassa vara.m dussiilassa paapadhammassa asuci-
          sa"nkassarasamaacaarassa pa.yicchanna-kammantassa assama.nassa
          sama.napa.tiññassa abrahmacaarissa brahmacaaripa.tiññassa
          antopuutikassa avassutassa kasambujaatassa ya.m amu.m mahanta.m
          aggikkhandha.m aaditta.m sampajjalita.m sajotibhuuta.m aai"ngetvaa
          upanisiideyya vaa upanipajjeyya vaa. Ta.m kissa hetu? Tatonidaanañhi
          so, bhikkhave, mara.na.m vaa nigaccheyya mara.namatta.m vaa dukkha.m,
          na tveva tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa apaaya.m
          duggati.m vinipaata.m niraya.m upapajjeyya.

          3. I am told by you, monks, I am informed by you, monks, that this
          one is surely is the better: this misconduct, this sinfulness, this
          unclean, altogether wicked behavior, this underhand action, this
          irreligious falsification of the religious life, this unholy
          falsification of the holy life, this inward putridness, this impure-
          natured lustfulness; [that this is better than,] having embraced that
          great mass of fire, burning, blazing, glowing, to sit or lie down
          with it. What is the reason for this? For that, monks, is the cause
          of death, or would lead to suffering like that of death, and not only
          that but would surely be a cause, on the break-up of the body after
          death, to be reborn into a place of woe, a realm of misery, a place
          of suffering, a place of destruction.


          Derek.
        • Äìèòðèé Èâàõíåíêî (Dimit
          Hi Derek, I m so glad you are on board! Yet I wonder why you can t send messages offline. You can either put your Yahoo e-mail in From field, or set your
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 4, 2001
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            Hi Derek,

            I'm so glad you are on board! Yet I wonder why you can't send
            messages offline. You can either put your Yahoo e-mail in 'From'
            field, or set your work e-mail as alternate in group subscription
            preferences. If I would write messages on-line, I would go bankrupt in
            no time !)

            Here we go:

            3. Aarocayaami vo, bhikkhave, pa.tivedayaami vo, bhikkhave, yathaa
            etadeva tassa vara.m dussiilassa paapadhammassa asuci-
            sa"nkassarasamaacaarassa pa.ticchanna-kammantassa assama.nassa
            sama.napa.tiññassa abrahmacaarissa brahmacaaripa.tiññassa
            antopuutikassa avassutassa kasambujaatassa ya.m amu.m mahanta.m
            aggikkhandha.m aaditta.m sampajjalita.m sajotibhuuta.m aai"ngetvaa
            upanisiideyya vaa upanipajjeyya vaa. Ta.m kissa hetu? Tatonidaanañhi
            so, bhikkhave, mara.na.m vaa nigaccheyya mara.namatta.m vaa dukkha.m,
            na tveva tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa apaaya.m
            duggati.m vinipaata.m niraya.m upapajjeyya.

            You tell me, monks, you answer me, monks, that you would prefer
            this immoral, wicked, unclean and doubtful behavior, this
            underhand action, this unascetical, seemingly
            ascetical, unchaste, seemingly chaste , inwardly putrid, filthy
            lustfulness, to sitting or lying close to this great burning,
            blazing and glowing mass of fire, having embraced it.
            Why so? For this, monks, leads to suffering death,
            or death-like agony, and besides, on the break-up of the body after death,
            causes rebirth in a place of woe, a realm of misery, a state of
            punishment, a purgatory.

            Well, certainly modern language can't convey all the nuances.

            Please tell where I'm mistaken.

            And what is 'tveva'?

            Dimitry

            DC> 3. I am told by you, monks, I am informed by you, monks, that this
            DC> one is surely is the better: this misconduct, this sinfulness, this
            DC> unclean, altogether wicked behavior, this underhand action, this
            DC> irreligious falsification of the religious life, this unholy
            DC> falsification of the holy life, this inward putridness, this impure-
            DC> natured lustfulness; [that this is better than,] having embraced that
            DC> great mass of fire, burning, blazing, glowing, to sit or lie down
            DC> with it. What is the reason for this? For that, monks, is the cause
            DC> of death, or would lead to suffering like that of death, and not only
            DC> that but would surely be a cause, on the break-up of the body after
            DC> death, to be reborn into a place of woe, a realm of misery, a place
            DC> of suffering, a place of destruction.
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