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Re: [Pali] Re: "Gerund"

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  • Ong Teng Kee
    Hi, I find my english grammar book gives ex.having gone to(gantva) as compound gerund for this pubbakiriya in pali. Action noun like swimming etc is call
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 1, 2001
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      Hi,
      I find my english grammar book gives ex.having gone
      to(gantva) as compound gerund for this pubbakiriya in
      pali.
      Action noun like swimming etc is call gerund
      .buddhadatta in his grammar book give past participle
      can be used freely in the place for pubbakiriya.



      --- Derek Cameron <derekacameron@...> wrote:
      > --- In Pali@y..., "Dimitry Ivakhnenko" <koleso@i...>
      > wrote:
      > > In my humble opinion 'Gerunds' was the closest
      > term that
      > > English-speaking grammarians could find for Pali
      > adverbial
      > > participles.
      >
      > Agreed. A gerund is really a noun. The confusion
      > arises because in
      > English, both gerunds and present participles end in
      > -ing.
      >
      > I like your term "adverbial participle." The other
      > alternative
      > ("absolutive") is pretty cryptic.
      >
      > Derek.
      >
      >
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    • ������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)
      Hi, Ong Teng Kee wrote: OTK I find my english grammar book gives ex.having gone OTK to(gantva) as compound gerund for this pubbakiriya in OTK pali. OTK
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 1, 2001
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        Hi,

        Ong Teng Kee wrote:
        OTK> I find my english grammar book gives ex.having gone
        OTK> to(gantva) as compound gerund for this pubbakiriya in
        OTK> pali.
        OTK> Action noun like swimming etc is call gerund
        OTK> .buddhadatta in his grammar book give past participle
        OTK> can be used freely in the place for pubbakiriya.

        Thank you, I would like to learn more about pubbakiriya.

        In Russian beside participles there is a special class of forms called
        'adverbial participles' (deeprichastiya), with '-av' ending for past and
        '-aya' for present, which closely correspond to Pali '-tva' and '-aya' forms.

        So please write whether '-aya' forms express past or present, so that
        I will be able to make exact translations.

        Dimitry
      • Ong Teng Kee
        Hi, Do you have a copy of Intro to pali by Warder.He put gerund (compound gerund for me and undeclineable /absolutive for many other teachers) for pubbakiriya
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 2, 2001
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          Hi,
          Do you have a copy of Intro to pali by Warder.He put
          gerund (compound gerund for me and undeclineable
          /absolutive for many other teachers)
          for pubbakiriya like gantva-having gone to follow by
          another verb in a phrase.There are some pubbakiriya
          ended in ya ,tvana .
          And in other part he gave action noun (real gerund in
          English grammar)for word like dassana which usually in
          dative case with ya added.This kind is not absolutive
          (undecline like the above )and it is not a verb like
          above.
          I never heard of adverbial participles in english but
          i think i learned it before in german grammar text.
          In pali past and present participles can be used us
          adjective,noun,present and past perfect verb.See
          Warder 's book.


          Teng Kee


          --- "������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)"
          <koleso@...> wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          > Ong Teng Kee wrote:
          > OTK> I find my english grammar book gives ex.having
          > gone
          > OTK> to(gantva) as compound gerund for this
          > pubbakiriya in
          > OTK> pali.
          > OTK> Action noun like swimming etc is call gerund
          > OTK> .buddhadatta in his grammar book give past
          > participle
          > OTK> can be used freely in the place for
          > pubbakiriya.
          >
          > Thank you, I would like to learn more about
          > pubbakiriya.
          >
          > In Russian beside participles there is a special
          > class of forms called
          > 'adverbial participles' (deeprichastiya), with '-av'
          > ending for past and
          > '-aya' for present, which closely correspond to Pali
          > '-tva' and '-aya' forms.
          >
          > So please write whether '-aya' forms express past or
          > present, so that
          > I will be able to make exact translations.
          >
          > Dimitry
          >
          >
          >
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          >
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          > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
          > [Discussion] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali
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          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >




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        • ������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)
          Hi, OTK Do you have a copy of Intro to pali by Warder. No. OTK He put gerund (compound gerund for me and undeclineable OTK /absolutive for many other
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 2, 2001
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            Hi,

            OTK> Do you have a copy of Intro to pali by Warder.

            No.

            OTK> He put gerund (compound gerund for me and undeclineable
            OTK> /absolutive for many other teachers)
            OTK> for pubbakiriya like gantva-having gone to follow by
            OTK> another verb in a phrase.There are some pubbakiriya
            OTK> ended in ya ,tvana .

            Well, I looked up Sanskrit grammar and found that -tvaa and -ya
            forms really correspond to Russian adverbial participles, however
            both forms can denote either past or present.

            Thus the term 'absolutive' is also fully justified.

            OTK> And in other part he gave action noun (real gerund in
            OTK> English grammar)for word like dassana which usually in
            OTK> dative case with ya added.This kind is not absolutive
            OTK> (undecline like the above )and it is not a verb like
            OTK> above.

            It seems that in this case he is right, dassana - seeing, dassanaaya -
            in order to see, for the purpose of seeing. Maybe he should have called
            this gerund.

            Dimitry
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