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Re: Mass of Fire Simile, 3rd sentence

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  • Derek Cameron
    Good point. The useful table at the back of A.K. Warder lists disvaa as the gerund/absolutive of passati, and kamma as the gerund/absolutive of kamati. So
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 1 2:29 AM
      Good point.

      The useful table at the back of A.K. Warder lists disvaa as the
      gerund/absolutive of passati, and kamma as the gerund/absolutive of
      kamati.

      So putting together all of our contributions I get:

      "Having seen it, [and] having stepped down from the path, he sat down
      on the appointed seat at the root of a tree."

      Derek.
    • Ong Teng Kee
      Hi, I find my english grammar book gives ex.having gone to(gantva) as compound gerund for this pubbakiriya in pali. Action noun like swimming etc is call
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 1 4:26 AM
        Hi,
        I find my english grammar book gives ex.having gone
        to(gantva) as compound gerund for this pubbakiriya in
        pali.
        Action noun like swimming etc is call gerund
        .buddhadatta in his grammar book give past participle
        can be used freely in the place for pubbakiriya.



        --- Derek Cameron <derekacameron@...> wrote:
        > --- In Pali@y..., "Dimitry Ivakhnenko" <koleso@i...>
        > wrote:
        > > In my humble opinion 'Gerunds' was the closest
        > term that
        > > English-speaking grammarians could find for Pali
        > adverbial
        > > participles.
        >
        > Agreed. A gerund is really a noun. The confusion
        > arises because in
        > English, both gerunds and present participles end in
        > -ing.
        >
        > I like your term "adverbial participle." The other
        > alternative
        > ("absolutive") is pretty cryptic.
        >
        > Derek.
        >
        >
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      • ������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)
        Hi, Ong Teng Kee wrote: OTK I find my english grammar book gives ex.having gone OTK to(gantva) as compound gerund for this pubbakiriya in OTK pali. OTK
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 1 5:35 AM
          Hi,

          Ong Teng Kee wrote:
          OTK> I find my english grammar book gives ex.having gone
          OTK> to(gantva) as compound gerund for this pubbakiriya in
          OTK> pali.
          OTK> Action noun like swimming etc is call gerund
          OTK> .buddhadatta in his grammar book give past participle
          OTK> can be used freely in the place for pubbakiriya.

          Thank you, I would like to learn more about pubbakiriya.

          In Russian beside participles there is a special class of forms called
          'adverbial participles' (deeprichastiya), with '-av' ending for past and
          '-aya' for present, which closely correspond to Pali '-tva' and '-aya' forms.

          So please write whether '-aya' forms express past or present, so that
          I will be able to make exact translations.

          Dimitry
        • Ong Teng Kee
          Hi, Do you have a copy of Intro to pali by Warder.He put gerund (compound gerund for me and undeclineable /absolutive for many other teachers) for pubbakiriya
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 2 4:33 AM
            Hi,
            Do you have a copy of Intro to pali by Warder.He put
            gerund (compound gerund for me and undeclineable
            /absolutive for many other teachers)
            for pubbakiriya like gantva-having gone to follow by
            another verb in a phrase.There are some pubbakiriya
            ended in ya ,tvana .
            And in other part he gave action noun (real gerund in
            English grammar)for word like dassana which usually in
            dative case with ya added.This kind is not absolutive
            (undecline like the above )and it is not a verb like
            above.
            I never heard of adverbial participles in english but
            i think i learned it before in german grammar text.
            In pali past and present participles can be used us
            adjective,noun,present and past perfect verb.See
            Warder 's book.


            Teng Kee


            --- "������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)"
            <koleso@...> wrote:
            > Hi,
            >
            > Ong Teng Kee wrote:
            > OTK> I find my english grammar book gives ex.having
            > gone
            > OTK> to(gantva) as compound gerund for this
            > pubbakiriya in
            > OTK> pali.
            > OTK> Action noun like swimming etc is call gerund
            > OTK> .buddhadatta in his grammar book give past
            > participle
            > OTK> can be used freely in the place for
            > pubbakiriya.
            >
            > Thank you, I would like to learn more about
            > pubbakiriya.
            >
            > In Russian beside participles there is a special
            > class of forms called
            > 'adverbial participles' (deeprichastiya), with '-av'
            > ending for past and
            > '-aya' for present, which closely correspond to Pali
            > '-tva' and '-aya' forms.
            >
            > So please write whether '-aya' forms express past or
            > present, so that
            > I will be able to make exact translations.
            >
            > Dimitry
            >
            >
            >
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            >
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            > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
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            >




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          • ������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)
            Hi, OTK Do you have a copy of Intro to pali by Warder. No. OTK He put gerund (compound gerund for me and undeclineable OTK /absolutive for many other
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 2 9:34 AM
              Hi,

              OTK> Do you have a copy of Intro to pali by Warder.

              No.

              OTK> He put gerund (compound gerund for me and undeclineable
              OTK> /absolutive for many other teachers)
              OTK> for pubbakiriya like gantva-having gone to follow by
              OTK> another verb in a phrase.There are some pubbakiriya
              OTK> ended in ya ,tvana .

              Well, I looked up Sanskrit grammar and found that -tvaa and -ya
              forms really correspond to Russian adverbial participles, however
              both forms can denote either past or present.

              Thus the term 'absolutive' is also fully justified.

              OTK> And in other part he gave action noun (real gerund in
              OTK> English grammar)for word like dassana which usually in
              OTK> dative case with ya added.This kind is not absolutive
              OTK> (undecline like the above )and it is not a verb like
              OTK> above.

              It seems that in this case he is right, dassana - seeing, dassanaaya -
              in order to see, for the purpose of seeing. Maybe he should have called
              this gerund.

              Dimitry
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