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Mass of Fire Simile, 5th sentence

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  • Dimitry Ivakhnenko
    While the cavalry rescues the 3rd sentence and scouting party investigates the 4th, let s send a postal pigeon to the 5th, since it is rather long and requires
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 1, 2001
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      While the cavalry rescues the 3rd sentence and scouting party
      investigates the 4th, let's send a postal pigeon to the 5th, since it is
      rather long and requires special consideration:

      “Ta.m ki.m maññatha, bhikkhave, katama.m nu kho vara.m – ya.m
      amu.m mahanta.m aggikkhandha.m aaditta.m sampajjalita.m
      sajotibhuuta.m aali'ngetvaa upanisiideyya vaa upanipajjeyya vaa,
      ya.m vaa khattiyakañña.m vaa braahma.nakañña.m vaa gahapatikañña.m
      vaa mudutalunahatthapaada.m aali'ngetvaa upanisiideyya vaa upanipajjeyya
      vaa”ti?

      ta.m = third person singular pronoun (neuter
      nominative-accusative or masc.-fem. accusative)
      ki.m = what (neuter singular of 'ka' as an interrogative
      particle)
      maññatha = (you) think (plural 2nd person of 'maññati')
      bhikkhave = monks (vocative plural)
      katama.m = which
      nu = then, now (interrogative particle)
      kho = now, then (emphatic particle)
      vara.m = best, supreme, better, most excellent
      ya.m = that which, whether (relative pronoun)
      amu.m = that (accusative)
      mahanta.m = large (accusative of mahaa, adjective in -ant)
      aggikkhanda.m = fire-mass, mass of fire
      aaditta.m = on fire, blazing, burning
      sampajjalita.m = in flames, ablaze
      sajotibhuuta.m = ablaze, aglow
      aali'ngetvaa = having empraced, past adverbial participle of
      'aali'ngati'
      upanisiideyya = optative of 'upanisiidati', to sit close to or down
      by
      vaa = or
      upanipajjeyya = optative of 'upanipajjati', to lie down close or on
      top of (with object in accusative case)
      khattiyakañña.m = a maid of khattiya (Sk. k,satriya, arictocratic) birth
      (accusative case)
      braahma.nakañña.m = a maid of braahma.na birth
      gahapatikañña.m = a maid of gahapatika (householder) birth
      mudu-taluna-hatthapaada.m = tender young hand and foot
      ti = thus, end-quote



      Girls, girls, girls... This unwordly logic reminds me of another sutta,
      Sutta Nipata III.12, Dvayatanupassana Sutta, The Contemplation of Dualities
      http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/khuddaka/suttanipata/snp3-12.html

      What would my friends from Tibetan Vajrayana say about this sutta?
      And what about the current utmost peak of beauty and spirituality,
      shown daily on TV and ads?
      The fire burns.

      Dimitry
    • Derek Cameron
      ... gahapatikañña.m ... upanipajjeyya ... Something like this: What do you think, monks? Which is better? Having embraced that large, burning, blazing,
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 1, 2001
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        > "Ta.m ki.m maññatha, bhikkhave, katama.m nu kho vara.m – ya.m
        > amu.m mahanta.m aggikkhandha.m aaditta.m sampajjalita.m
        > sajotibhuuta.m aali'ngetvaa upanisiideyya vaa upanipajjeyya vaa,
        > ya.m vaa khattiyakañña.m vaa braahma.nakañña.m vaa
        gahapatikañña.m
        > vaa mudutalunahatthapaada.m aali'ngetvaa upanisiideyya vaa
        upanipajjeyya
        > vaa"ti?

        Something like this:

        What do you think, monks? Which is better? Having embraced that
        large, burning, blazing, glowing mass of fire, to sit or lie down
        with it? Or, having embraced a noblewoman, or a woman of high birth,
        or a householder woman, or a woman of tender young hands and feet, to
        sit or lie down with her?

        Derek.
      • Dimitry Ivakhnenko
        ... DC Something like this: DC What do you think, monks? Which is better? Having embraced that DC large, burning, blazing, glowing mass of fire, to sit or
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 1, 2001
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          >> "Ta.m ki.m maññatha, bhikkhave, katama.m nu kho vara.m – ya.m
          >> amu.m mahanta.m aggikkhandha.m aaditta.m sampajjalita.m
          >> sajotibhuuta.m aali'ngetvaa upanisiideyya vaa upanipajjeyya vaa,
          >> ya.m vaa khattiyakañña.m vaa braahma.nakañña.m vaa gahapatikañña.m
          >> vaa mudutalunahatthapaada.m aali'ngetvaa upanisiideyya vaa upanipajjeyya
          >> vaa"ti?

          DC> Something like this:

          DC> What do you think, monks? Which is better? Having embraced that
          DC> large, burning, blazing, glowing mass of fire, to sit or lie down
          DC> with it? Or, having embraced a noblewoman, or a woman of high birth,
          DC> or a householder woman, or a woman of tender young hands and feet, to
          DC> sit or lie down with her?

          Maybe 'to sit or lie down close to'
          'to sit or lie down near'

          Also I would preserve 'khattiya' and 'braahma.na', with footnotes
          provided.

          'vaa' is used after the enumerated item, so 'of tender young hands and
          feet' probably refers to all three types of maidens.

          'kaññaa' = a young (unmarried) woman, maiden, girl.

          Dimitry
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