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Group Statistics

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  • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
    Dear Piya and friends, Piya, since you have pointed out about the participation rate, which I think is an important part of modern management, I have gathered
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 7, 2003
      Dear Piya and friends,

      Piya, since you have pointed out about the participation rate, which
      I think is an important part of modern management, I have gathered
      some statistics which is only visible to the moderator. I hope you
      will find this useful and perhaps put forward some suggestions on how
      to improve participation.

      Membership: 229

      No. receiving individual emails/daily digest: 116
      No. receiving special notices: 12
      No. receiving no emails: 101

      From the statistics, 116 (50.66%) members are receiving the emails.
      12 members have chosen to receive email messages only when there are
      important updates from the moderator [Only mails from the moderator
      and marked as a Special Notice will be sent to them]. The remaining
      101 (44.10%) choose not to receive email. I believe a good number of
      them read the emails by visiting the group's site regularly, while
      others may visit less frequently, however there is no way to track
      them.

      metta,
      Yong Peng
    • christine_forsyth <cforsyth@vtown.com.au>
      Dear Yong Peng, Piya and friends, I am one of the (mainly lurking) members who read at the website. I do this for all the Buddist groups I am subscribed to -
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 7, 2003
        Dear Yong Peng, Piya and friends,

        I am one of the (mainly lurking) members who read at the website. I
        do this for all the Buddist groups I am subscribed to - from the Home
        Pages, so I am aware of daily fluctuations in numbers of all these
        groups. All Things Pali Group numbers are more stable than the
        other groups. Some of the larger groups (between 500 and 1200
        members) have large swings as window-shoppers come and go, verbal
        gang wars are won and lost, or people's in-boxes give way under the
        strain. One list I am on averages more than a hundred emails each
        day. Many lists are buddhist in name only, and are simply discussions
        on a melange of 'new age' topics. Moha, dosa and lobha reign
        supreme. Rarely are the texts of any tradition even alluded to in the
        posts. Many of these lists have hundreds of members who joined in,
        say, 1999 and have never posted. I'm sure if the moderators
        used 'probe' software they would probably find that half the email
        addresses were no longer valid.

        People's personalities differ. They do what they are most
        comfortable doing. In a 'face to face' group, some people regularly
        talk often, some make an occasional comment, some only listen. They
        are all participating. All Things Pali Group is no different. I
        think it is important not to define 'participation' in a narrow
        sense. Participation doesn't only mean writing to the list. I have
        been 'participating' for a long time, even though I have only posted
        a few times.

        This is a valuable list. It is extremely successful at doing what it
        was set up to do. Naturally, small improvements should always be
        considered, but a specialist gourmet restaurant should never attempt
        to complete with the McDonald's of this world.
        There is no problem.

        metta,
        Christine

        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@y...>"
        <ypong001@y...> wrote:
        > Dear Piya and friends,
        >
        > Piya, since you have pointed out about the participation rate,
        which
        > I think is an important part of modern management, I have gathered
        > some statistics which is only visible to the moderator. I hope you
        > will find this useful and perhaps put forward some suggestions on
        how
        > to improve participation.
        >
        > Membership: 229
        >
        > No. receiving individual emails/daily digest: 116
        > No. receiving special notices: 12
        > No. receiving no emails: 101
        >
        > From the statistics, 116 (50.66%) members are receiving the emails.
        > 12 members have chosen to receive email messages only when there
        are
        > important updates from the moderator [Only mails from the moderator
        > and marked as a Special Notice will be sent to them]. The remaining
        > 101 (44.10%) choose not to receive email. I believe a good number
        of
        > them read the emails by visiting the group's site regularly, while
        > others may visit less frequently, however there is no way to track
        > them.
        >
        > metta,
        > Yong Peng
      • Piya Tan
        Dear Christine, It s very encouraging to know you share what I can safely say is the vision of many of us on thei website: we love Pali and would like to focus
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 7, 2003
          Dear Christine,

          It's very encouraging to know you share what I can safely say is the vision
          of many of us on thei website: we love Pali and would like to focus on the
          Suttas and related texts, translation and so on. In some ways, thankfully we
          are not a rowdy bazaar where anything goes. Many of us have a serious
          interest in the Buddhist texts and we feel this website can be of great
          service even if there are a few of us.

          Even better, if we can do this with respect, openness and camaraderie, a
          willing to see our own mistakes and share our wisdom, not be envious of
          other's success (or our perception of it), and to see a good work as a
          shoulder to stand on so that we can ourselves grow in our understanding in
          the Buddha Dharma.

          By all the good actions I have done, and all the good intentions of those
          who cherish this website, may be get more sane and engaging people like you.

          Sukhi.

          P.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <cforsyth@...>
          To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 4:55 AM
          Subject: [Pali] Re: Group Statistics


          > Dear Yong Peng, Piya and friends,
          >
          > I am one of the (mainly lurking) members who read at the website. I
          > do this for all the Buddist groups I am subscribed to - from the Home
          > Pages, so I am aware of daily fluctuations in numbers of all these
          > groups. All Things Pali Group numbers are more stable than the
          > other groups. Some of the larger groups (between 500 and 1200
          > members) have large swings as window-shoppers come and go, verbal
          > gang wars are won and lost, or people's in-boxes give way under the
          > strain. One list I am on averages more than a hundred emails each
          > day. Many lists are buddhist in name only, and are simply discussions
          > on a melange of 'new age' topics. Moha, dosa and lobha reign
          > supreme. Rarely are the texts of any tradition even alluded to in the
          > posts. Many of these lists have hundreds of members who joined in,
          > say, 1999 and have never posted. I'm sure if the moderators
          > used 'probe' software they would probably find that half the email
          > addresses were no longer valid.
          >
          > People's personalities differ. They do what they are most
          > comfortable doing. In a 'face to face' group, some people regularly
          > talk often, some make an occasional comment, some only listen. They
          > are all participating. All Things Pali Group is no different. I
          > think it is important not to define 'participation' in a narrow
          > sense. Participation doesn't only mean writing to the list. I have
          > been 'participating' for a long time, even though I have only posted
          > a few times.
          >
          > This is a valuable list. It is extremely successful at doing what it
          > was set up to do. Naturally, small improvements should always be
          > considered, but a specialist gourmet restaurant should never attempt
          > to complete with the McDonald's of this world.
          > There is no problem.
          >
          > metta,
          > Christine
          >
          > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@y...>"
          > <ypong001@y...> wrote:
          > > Dear Piya and friends,
          > >
          > > Piya, since you have pointed out about the participation rate,
          > which
          > > I think is an important part of modern management, I have gathered
          > > some statistics which is only visible to the moderator. I hope you
          > > will find this useful and perhaps put forward some suggestions on
          > how
          > > to improve participation.
          > >
          > > Membership: 229
          > >
          > > No. receiving individual emails/daily digest: 116
          > > No. receiving special notices: 12
          > > No. receiving no emails: 101
          > >
          > > From the statistics, 116 (50.66%) members are receiving the emails.
          > > 12 members have chosen to receive email messages only when there
          > are
          > > important updates from the moderator [Only mails from the moderator
          > > and marked as a Special Notice will be sent to them]. The remaining
          > > 101 (44.10%) choose not to receive email. I believe a good number
          > of
          > > them read the emails by visiting the group's site regularly, while
          > > others may visit less frequently, however there is no way to track
          > > them.
          > >
          > > metta,
          > > Yong Peng
          >
          >
          > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
          web only.
          > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
          > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
          > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
          > [Discussion] http://tipitaka.suddenlaunch.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • Piya Tan
          Dear Yong Peng, Thanks for the statistics: you have shown great management. I ve never questioned this and admire your work. Statistics are never a problem
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 7, 2003
            Dear Yong Peng,

            Thanks for the statistics: you have shown great management. I've never
            questioned this and admire your work.

            Statistics are never a problem with spirituality simply because spirituality
            does not measure things: we cannot measure love, lovingkindness, compassion,
            kindness and other positive immeasurable emotions. We can only show it: a
            bell is only a bell when you ring it.

            What we need to do is not so much to be technically correct (computers and
            machines can do better), but to use words with a powerful spirit to changes
            lives for the better. For that reason, people like Thich Nhat Hanh is
            popularly read and respected. His spirituality led him to introduce new
            words like "interbeing" which describe this wonderful interconnectedness we
            share and should respect.

            In other words, a website becomes even better when the human aspect is
            cherished, and I think we need to maintain some level of civility, some
            standard or code of mutual respect. No matter how good one may be in Pali or
            doctrine, it betrays one otherwise.

            This is no easy task to do, but we have to go on trying to do this in a
            Buddhist way.

            In the final analysis, we are not trying to translate anything or to explain
            any Buddhism, but to change ourselves (including myself, of course). Isn't
            that what Buddha Dharma is really about?

            The Dhammapada says that the gift of the Dharma excels all gifts: here (just
            for our current purposes) let me take "Dharma" to mean a positive mental
            state. So if we can communicate with one another kindly, at least more
            civilly, and to inspire others, then we would brighten the minds (and lives)
            of others and they are more likely to contribute that bright side of their
            lives, instead of answering challenges and word-battling. What I feel sad
            about sometimes is that we occasionally see the dark side, the shadow of
            some, that may affect this website in a very negative way.

            As Ajahn Brahm likes to say: the first thing we should do when we wake up is
            to SMILE! If you are unable to, you may have a problem: even then, you can
            still use your two pointing fingers and push your cheeks up and there's a
            smile! I was a very senior monk to Ajahn Brahm, but now I am a pupil of his
            and feeling great about it.

            Please keep up your good work, Yong Peng.

            Sukhi.

            P.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <ypong001@...>
            To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:46 PM
            Subject: [Pali] Group Statistics


            > Dear Piya and friends,
            >
            > Piya, since you have pointed out about the participation rate, which
            > I think is an important part of modern management, I have gathered
            > some statistics which is only visible to the moderator. I hope you
            > will find this useful and perhaps put forward some suggestions on how
            > to improve participation.
            >
            > Membership: 229
            >
            > No. receiving individual emails/daily digest: 116
            > No. receiving special notices: 12
            > No. receiving no emails: 101
            >
            > From the statistics, 116 (50.66%) members are receiving the emails.
            > 12 members have chosen to receive email messages only when there are
            > important updates from the moderator [Only mails from the moderator
            > and marked as a Special Notice will be sent to them]. The remaining
            > 101 (44.10%) choose not to receive email. I believe a good number of
            > them read the emails by visiting the group's site regularly, while
            > others may visit less frequently, however there is no way to track
            > them.
            >
            > metta,
            > Yong Peng
            >
            >
            > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
            web only.
            > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
            > [Discussion] http://tipitaka.suddenlaunch.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
            Dear Piya, Christine and friends, thanks. As buddhists, we are generally concern with the present wellness of Buddhism. And to me, though I m not a
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 7, 2003
              Dear Piya, Christine and friends,

              thanks. As buddhists, we are generally concern with the
              present 'wellness' of Buddhism. And to me, though I'm not a
              statistician, simple statistics give us a rough analysis and
              indication of that 'wellness'. In fact, I think Buddhism is in some
              trouble if it was to have problem with statistics, which is so much
              of our everyday life: unemployment trend, consumer purchasing index,
              birth rate, etc. Statistics is an important tool for all sorts of
              professions: scientists, doctors, bankers, engineers, advertisers,
              etc. While Buddhism analyse the mind to understand life and nature,
              Statistics analyse numbers to understand life and nature.

              However, numbers sometime is not a definitive indicator. (Numbers are
              not always statistics, which is a very scientific methodology.)
              Yahoo! Groups has 1133 Buddhism groups, but a good 566 (50%) of them
              has only 7 or less members. Many are almost inactive right from the
              start. Of the remaining 567, 275 has 8 to 25 members, and so on.
              Furthermore, as Christine has pointed out, many of these groups are
              only buddhist in name. In this information-explosive age, we have to
              be selective of what we read so as to better utilise the limited time
              we have for dhamma study and practice.

              Information technology has allow people sharing similar interest to
              come together to learn, study and share collectively. I don't mind
              prolonged discussion as long as the discussion takes place in a
              genuine and sincere atmosphere. And, no flaming please.

              Allow me, at the same time, to share the plan that I have come up
              with for Tipitaka Network and All Things Pali Discussion Group:

              All Things Pali Discussion Group
              This mailing list will soon exhibit three features:

              (a) Pali Day by Day
              This thread will adopt the rote familiarization method we are
              familiar with from grammar lessons in school. We will work through a
              book by answering all the questions and, where appropriate, highlight
              some effective study methods or tricks.

              How it works: Pali Day by Day will run in series. The current series,
              Series A, will cover Pali Primer. Series B will cover another book,
              and so on. Currently, I have nine books in the line-up.

              Schedule: Daily. As this is the first book, I'll be going at a slow
              pace. Series A will take approximately 16 months to complete.

              For whom: This thread is for myself and those who,
              (i) want to learn Pali but only have a little time each day, or
              (ii) want to enjoy Pali but not get addicted to it.

              Difficulty level: Beginner to Advance (depending on the book we read)

              Backend support: I will dedicate space on tipitaka.net to put up full
              answers in the trilinear format, essential points from our
              discussion, and language tools such as those John and myself have
              created for the book.

              (b)?????
              I will give a formal introduction to this new thread tomorrow. It
              will serve as a bridge between Pali Day by Day and Sutta Translation.
              It will get us wet by working on real Pali sentences from the
              Tipitaka.

              How it works: It will be a series in its own right. Sentences from
              the Tipitaka will be used from translation practice.

              Schedule: Weekly, every Sunday. If the response is good, this series
              will go on for years.

              For whom: This series is for anyone who like to try first hand
              translating real sentences from the Tipitaka instead of make-up ones
              in Pali textbooks. The focus is still largely on language, but some
              dhamma knowledge may be required.

              Difficulty level: Intermediate to Advance

              Backend support: I will also dedicate space on tipitaka.net to put up
              full answers in the trilinear format, and essential points from our
              discussion.

              (c) Sutta Translation
              The real Pali immersion, started by Dimitry and Derek, in which we
              work through a full sutta from the Tipitaka. Most time consuming but
              most rewarding. Dhamma knowledge is required to understand the
              concepts discussed therein.

              How it works: Each sutta will take up a discussion thread of its own.
              Translation of the sutta will be done with a paragraph each time.
              Members are encouraged to participate by translating full paragraphs.
              Further discussion of buddhist concepts, background information and
              references related to the sutta are highly welcomed. At present, John
              has been helping to translate Maharahulovada Sutta, and Nina has been
              providing background information from the commentary.

              Schedule: I will only attempt one or two paragraphs each month, but
              all are welcome to carry on from where I left off. John has put in a
              lot of effort in it, so has Nina been providing interesting
              background information. And also not to forget many others who having
              been chipping in on and off to provide insights to the sutta. I
              deeply appreciate their contributions. At our current rate, we would
              be able to complete the translation of Maharahulovada Sutta by end of
              the year.

              For whom: Anyone who are keen and confident enough to enter the 'real
              world' of Pali literature.

              Difficulty level: Intermediate to Advance

              Backend support: I have already set up a placeholder page for Sutta
              Translation at http://www.tipitaka.net/strans/ I will be putting up a
              trilinear edition, an English-only edition, and essential points from
              our discussion for the suttas we translate.

              What about Tipitaka Network?
              The website will continue to serve as an information collection and
              retrieval centre providing backend support for this mailing list, and
              storing articles and information related to the study of Pali
              language and Tipitaka. On top of that, a forum-based community will
              be built to provide an alternative mode of online discussion for Pali
              students.

              metta,
              Yong Peng
            • nina van gorkom
              Dear Yong Peng, This is really wonderful. I do enjoy beginners, one has to keep at the grammar, repeating, and also I like the more advanced you propose. I am
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 9, 2003
                Dear Yong Peng,
                This is really wonderful. I do enjoy beginners, one has to keep at the
                grammar, repeating, and also I like the more advanced you propose. I am
                getting excited about all your plans. I will keep to Email, web is time
                consuming for me, but thanks anyway for your and Piya's offer to help. Pali
                day by day, this, I hope continues just on Email? I am not familiar with the
                name All things Pali discussion, but this is from your web?
                I enjoy continuing with Co notes and trans, but really very slowly. I will
                stay behind to your sutta tran. Anyway, we should often go back to our text
                I feel, so that we profit from it to the most. Such pointed reminders in
                them. Rereading texts helps to get to the deep meaning.
                I also like very much your ideas of cross reference to suttas for further
                explanations. What a good reminder for me. I get so busy and involved with
                different projects, I do not read enough suttas.
                The Co to the Mahaaraahulovaada sutta reminds me of a cross reference to the
                Discourse on the Elephant's Footprint. When I have time I will do so.
                With much appreciation,
                Nina

                op 08-02-2003 07:38 schreef Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@...> op
                ypong001@...:

                All Things Pali Discussion Group
                > This mailing list will soon exhibit three features:
              • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
                Dear Nina and friends, thanks. Pali Day by Day , Pali Word by Word and Sutta Translation will remain as part of the mailing list. In fact, I have no plans
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 9, 2003
                  Dear Nina and friends,

                  thanks. 'Pali Day by Day', 'Pali Word by Word' and 'Sutta
                  Translation' will remain as part of the mailing list. In fact, I have
                  no plans yet to start a regular feature for the discussion forum
                  under construction. 'All Things Pali Discussion Group' is just the
                  name I came up with for this mailing list in 2001.

                  I enjoy the commentary translations you put up, and they are of the
                  right 'portion' for reading. Thanks. And if possible, we can work on
                  the Discourse on the Elephant's Footprint as the next sutta for
                  translation.

                  metta,
                  Yong Peng.

                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, nina van gorkom wrote:
                  > This is really wonderful. I do enjoy beginners, one has to keep at
                  the grammar, repeating, and also I like the more advanced you
                  propose. I am getting excited about all your plans. I will keep to
                  Email, web is time consuming for me, but thanks anyway for your and
                  Piya's offer to help. Pali day by day, this, I hope continues just on
                  Email? I am not familiar with the name All things Pali discussion,
                  but this is from your web?
                  >
                  > I enjoy continuing with Co notes and trans, but really very
                  slowly. I will stay behind to your sutta tran. Anyway, we should
                  often go back to our text I feel, so that we profit from it to the
                  most. Such pointed reminders in them. Rereading texts helps to get to
                  the deep meaning.
                  >
                  > I also like very much your ideas of cross reference to suttas for
                  further explanations. What a good reminder for me. I get so busy and
                  involved with different projects, I do not read enough suttas.
                  >
                  > The Co to the Mahaaraahulovaada sutta reminds me of a cross
                  reference to the Discourse on the Elephant's Footprint. When I have
                  time I will do so.
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