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Right View on Non-existence and Existence

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  • Kumara Bhikkhu
    I like this sutta quote very much: [Kaccayana:] Lord, Right view, right view, it is said. To what extent is there right view? [The Buddha:] By & large,
    Message 1 of 37 , Aug 24, 2013
      I like this sutta quote very much:

      [Kaccayana:] "Lord, 'Right view, right view,' it
      is said. To what extent is there right view?"

      [The Buddha:] "By & large, Kaccayana, this world
      is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity,
      that of existence & non-existence. But when one
      sees the origination of the world as it actually
      is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with
      reference to the world does not occur to one.
      When one sees the cessation of the world as it
      actually is with right discernment, 'existence'
      with reference to the world does not occur to one.

      "By & large, Kaccayana, this world is in bondage
      to attachments, clingings (sustenances), &
      biases. But one such as this does not get
      involved with or cling to these attachments,
      clingings, fixations of awareness, biases, or
      obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He
      has no uncertainty or doubt that, when there is
      arising, only stress is arising; and that when
      there is passing away, only stress is passing
      away. In this, one's knowledge is independent of
      others. It is to this extent, Kaccayana, that there is right view."

      ­ SN 12.15 (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.015.than.html)

      Beautiful, isn't it?
    • Piya Tan
      Dharma Friends, I want to address only one interesting point, that is, Stefan s remark about difficulty of watching the present moment. The main difficulty
      Message 37 of 37 , Sep 17, 2013
        Dharma Friends,
        I want to address only one interesting point, that is, Stefan's remark about difficulty of watching the "present moment."
        The main difficulty here is that we are watching the "views" of the present moment, watching them as contents, rather than as process itself.
        If we watch the process, then all we see the rise and fall. (Emphasis is on "see" not "note," although this term can be helpful in its right context.)
        If we keep watching the rise and fall of the mind, then the mind should be able to calm itself in due course.
        Indeed, if we reflect on M 131, "past" and "future" are simply our views of them, We think that thought A is something about the past, thought B is about the future. These "past" and "future" are themselves concepts, not helpful here. In meditation, we need to clear the mind of all views, but gently (we cannot wish for it). Just let go. (See SD 40a.1)
        The "present" is our mental directing to whatever is going on, the passing of mental events, if you like. This is the so called "present moment awareness" (useful concept but don't get caught up with its philosophy).
        Dh 348 does not contradict M 131, but speaks in another way, reminding us that even the present moment should not be taken as a view. Let that go, too. M 131 lists the 15 wrong views, which is a sort of abridged version of the 16 doubts mentioned in M 2 (Sabbasava Sutta), etc (see Intro to SD 8.9). The 16 doubts deal with past, present and future: let go of all such thoughts in meditation.
        The 15 wrong-view method of M 131 exhorts us to let go of the past and future. For the present, we regard the 5 aggregates (one by one or as necessary) as impermanent.
        The bottom line is that we need to let go of all conceiving and thinking. Only when the mind if free from thoughts will the hindrances go away. Even if dhyana cannot be attained, the momentary stillness is itself of such profound joy. We use this to study the suttas, which are very useful in our understanding of meditation theory.
        I have two offerings, a translation of M 131 (SD 8.9) and an essay, "Notion of di.t.thi" (SD 40a.1), about letting go of views. Contact me offline if you want these files. Taste the joy of meditation, and the suttas becomes clearer. Enjoy the suttas, and meditation theory becomes easier.
        Hope this is helpful.
        With metta and mudita,

        On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:

        Dear stefan_karpik,

        One word for now/present in Pali is
        "paccuppanna", which can be literally translated as "just occurred".


        wrote thus at 06:37 PM 20-08-13:
        >Dear PG,
        >I wonder if 4 years is a record delay on this group!
        >As I have found the attempt to focus on the present moment unhelpful in
        >my own meditation practice, I've had my doubts that the Buddha ever
        >referred to living in the moment or awareness of the present moment or
        >present moment awareness. My problems are: sometimes the mind works so
        >fast that the experience I am being aware of has gone by the time I am
        >aware of it; also, if the past or future is in awareness now, I don't
        >see that present moment awareness adds anything to my practice. I was
        >tying myself in knots trying to achieve present-moment awareness that
        >made any difference.
        >I think Dhammapada Verse 348. Reaching The Further Shore, advises
        >against present moment awareness:
        >Let go before, let go the after,
        >let go the middle, beyond the becoming.
        >With mind released in every way
        >you'll come no more to birth, decay.
        >348. muñca pure muñca pacchato, majjhe muñca bhavassa
        >pÄ ragÅ«.
        > sabbattha vimuttamÄ naso, na punaṃ jÄ tijaraṃ
        >Here I am taking 'majjhe' as meaning what is between the present and
        >past, i.e. the present moment, which Joseph Goldstein does.
        >Joseph Goldstein in the first 10 minutes of his Talk 21 of the
        >Satipatthana series examines the advantages and disadvantages of present
        >moment awareness and concludes that he does not want a construct like
        >'present moment', he wants reality.
        ><http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/96/talk/300/> This where I got the
        >Dhammapada quote from.
        >Christopher Titmuss critiques present moment awareness in Dharma Enews
        >12 August 2007 in "Is the Now a lot of hype?"
        >So does Georges Dreyfus in "Is mindfulness present-centred and
        >There seems to be a view around of the Buddha as a kind of ancient
        >Eckhart Tolle and some translations seem to support this. Bhikkhu Bodhi
        >regularly translates 'dhammo.....sandit.t.hiko' as 'the dhamma visible
        >here and now' eg MLDB page 358 MN 38.25. However, 'sandit.t.hiko' is
        >literally 'completely visiible', which I interpret as 'obvious',
        >'transparent', 'open'; there is certainly no 'here' or 'now in the Pali.
        >Now I have used Dhp 348 to say the Buddha did not advocate present
        >moment awareness, but others in this group have used MN 131
        >Bhaddekaratta Sutta to claim the opposite. !f you look closely, there is
        >an ambiguity; the translation of 'paccuppannam' as 'presently-arisen'
        >(MLDB page 1039) can mean (1) 'present in awareness' or (2) ' in
        >present-moment awareness', as the English 'present' can refer to
        >existence or to time; meaning (1) supports my stance against present
        >moment awareness and meaning (2) supports the opposite! To be honest,
        >given Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of 'sandit.t.hiko', I think he
        >intended meaning (2), but did the Buddha? The PED gives for
        >'paccuppanna' 'what has arisen (just now), existing, present (as opposed
        >to .. past and... future)', but still I doubt: PED gives the derivation
        >of 'paccuppanna' as 'pat.i + uppajjati' and the article on 'pat.i' does
        >not offer the meaning 'now' and only offers 'again' in a temporal sense;
        >so I wonder if the PED inadvertently slipped from meaning (1),
        >'existent', to meaning (2), 'present-moment', never imagining that a
        >whole philosophy of the now and present-moment awareness would be
        >hooked onto this anomalous interpretation of 'pat.i' as 'now' !
        >To sum up: either the Buddha contradicts himself between Dhp 348 and
        >MN131 on present-moment awareness or the PED contradicts itself in its
        >understanding of 'pat.i' and 'paccuppanna'. At the moment, PG, I can't
        >see MN 131 as supporting the modern idea of present moment awareness,
        >but that puts me in the difficult position of agreeing with the PED on
        >'pat.i', but disagreeing with the PED on 'paccuppanna', which I take to
        >mean 'come to mind, the contents of mind' without any temporal
        >reference; if temporal reference to 'now' were seriously meant, the Pali
        >would surely use 'vuttamaana'. I would really appreciate some feedback
        >on this point.
        >I'm sorry if I have muddied the waters for you and, if you find
        >'present-moment awareness' a useful concept, please keep it. But it is
        >not useful for me or some others and I genuinely doubt that the Buddha
        >taught it. I wonder if those who do see this concept in the Buddha's
        >teachings are projecting a modern zeitgeist onto the Buddha.
        >Better late than never,
        >With metta
        >Stefan Karpik

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