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Re: need feed back on the Pindapata and pindacara confusion in Malaysia

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  • Chanida
    Dear Venerable Dhammadinna, I think both terms should be fine to refer to monks going for alms round. The term piṇḍac�ra is undoubtedly correct. It is
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 28, 2013
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      Dear Venerable Dhammadinna,



      I think both terms should be fine to refer to monks' going for alms
      round.



      The term piṇḍacâra is undoubtedly correct. It is found in
      verses in Suttanipâta (Sn72, 137) and Apadâna (Ap 24,201, 272,
      516) where it comes with verbs of car root. More can be found in
      commentaries where it is used more with verbs of gam root.



      As Bryan explains, the term piṇḍapâta is used mostly in the
      sense of alms food. But in the compound
      piṇḍapâta-paá¹­ikkanta which is found frequently in the
      Pali canon to refer to monks returning from alms round, I think the word
      piṇḍapâta can have an extended sense of going for alms round
      too.



      It is interesting to note that Pali canonical texts refer to monks who
      routinely go for alms round only as piṇḍapâtika, except in
      the Vinaya-piá¹­aka where both piṇḍapâtika and
      piṇḍacârika are used perhaps interchangeably. This seems to
      reinforce the idea that the term piṇḍapâta can refer to the
      act of going for alms round too; for if it only refers to alms food, the
      compound piṇḍapâtika may refer to any monk in the sense of
      'one who depends on alms offering', which contradicts its usage in the
      Pali canon.



      Hence, it seems to me that both piṇḍapâta and
      piṇḍacâra can be used interchangeably to refer to monks'
      going for alms round. It may be interesting to note also that a
      Gândhârî ms has 'piṇḍacâra-paá¹­ikkanta' instead
      of 'piṇḍapâta-paá¹­ikkanta' as found in the Pali canon.



      Yours respectfully,

      Chanida
    • Kumara Bhikkhu
      Allow me to provide some input. Since pindapata means alms food , it is perfectly correct to say, We are going for pindapata (alms food). However, it
      Message 2 of 4 , May 5 2:30 AM
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        Allow me to provide some input. Since 'pindapata'
        means 'alms food', it is perfectly correct to
        say, "We are going for pindapata (alms food)."
        However, it would not make sense to say "We get
        food by pindapata," as it translates to "We get
        food by alms food." It would be fine though to say, "We get food by pindacara."

        The term 'pindapata' is commonly used these days
        in the Sri Lankan and Thai tradition. In
        Malaysia, I think it was us (the monks at
        Sasanarakkha) who began using 'pindacara' perhaps
        a little over 10 years ago. The matter was
        pointed out to me by my teacher, Bhante
        Aggacitta, as I was picking up Pali from him. I
        then suggested that we use this "new" term
        instead. He agreed, and so that's how it started.
        We are kind of a reformist sangha. :-)

        kb

        P.S.: Btw, this egroup doesn't allow rich text,
        much less Unicode. So, better stick to plain text.

        Chanida wrote thus at 01:52 AM 29-04-13:

        >Dear Venerable Dhammadinna,
        >
        >
        >
        >I think both terms should be fine to refer to monks' going for alms
        >round.
        >
        >
        >
        >The term piṇḍacâra is undoubtedly correct. It is found in
        >verses in Suttanipâta (Sn72, 137) and Apadâna (Ap 24,201, 272,
        >516) where it comes with verbs of car root. More can be found in
        >commentaries where it is used more with verbs of gam root.
        >
        >
        >
        >As Bryan explains, the term piṇḍapâta is used mostly in the
        >sense of alms food. But in the compound
        >piṇḍapâta-paá¹­ikkanta which is found frequently in the
        >Pali canon to refer to monks returning from alms round, I think the word
        >piṇḍapâta can have an extended sense of going for alms round
        >too.
        >
        >
        >
        >It is interesting to note that Pali canonical texts refer to monks who
        >routinely go for alms round only as piṇḍapâtika, except in
        >the Vinaya-piá¹­aka where both piṇḍapâtika and
        >piṇḍacârika are used perhaps interchangeably. This seems to
        >reinforce the idea that the term piṇḍapâta can refer to the
        >act of going for alms round too; for if it only refers to alms food, the
        >compound piṇḍapâtika may refer to any monk in the sense of
        >'one who depends on alms offering', which contradicts its usage in the
        >Pali canon.
        >
        >
        >
        >Hence, it seems to me that both piṇḍapâta and
        >piṇḍacâra can be used interchangeably to refer to monks'
        >going for alms round. It may be interesting to note also that a
        >Gândhârî ms has 'piṇḍacâra-paá¹­ikkanta' instead
        >of 'piṇḍapâta-paá¹­ikkanta' as found in the Pali canon.
        >
        >
        >
        >Yours respectfully,
        >
        >Chanida
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------
        >
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