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Re: [Pali] need feed back on the Pindapata and pindacara confusion in Malaysia

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  • Bryan Levman
    Dear Ven. Dhammadinna, As you see below a lot of the letters didn t come through, but I believe you re asking about the difference between piṇḍapāta and
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 27, 2013
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      Dear Ven. Dhammadinna,

      As you see below a lot of the letters didn't come through, but I believe you're asking about the difference between piṇḍapāta and piṇḍacāra.

      piṇḍacāra is wandering for alms from carati, "walk or roam about."
      piṇḍapāta is the receiving of alms from patati, "falls down, alights on" referring to the act of the householder placing the food in the bhikkhu's bowl.

      This is explicated in the Visuddhimagga (PTS 31)
      piṇḍapātanti yaṃkiñci āhāraṃ. yo hi koci āhāro bhikkhuno piṇḍolyena patte patitattā piṇḍapātoti vuccati.

      piṇḍapātaṃ means whatever food. For whatever food, because of having been placed in the bowl while the monk is wandering for alms is called "piṇḍapāto."

      The commentary explicates patitattāti pakkhipitattā. pakkhipita-ttā, is the past participle of pakkhipati meaning "he places in, he puts."

      I hope that is what you're looking for,

      Mettā, Bryan




      ________________________________
      From: dhammadinna <dhammadinna@...>
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 4:34:23 AM
      Subject: [Pali] need feed back on the Pindapata and pindacara confusion in Malaysia



       
      Dear Pali friends,

      Need your feed back with the words Pi.n.dapaata and Pi.n.daacaara.

      Monks who went for alms-round according to the A. P. Buddhadata Maha Thera Pali-English Dictionary is: piṇḍapāta which means a collection of alms.

      Now, in Malaysia some use the term Pi.n.daacaara or piṇḍācāra going for collecting alms. There is a confusion cause by some in Malaysia. We normally heard of the words piṇḍapāta but the word piṇḍācāra is being use to refer monks going for alms-round and it cause confusion amongst the Buddhist community.

      Which term is the correct term to refer monks who go alms-round. piṇḍapāta or piṇḍācāra. Is there any references in the Tipitaka?

      Venerable Dhammadinna




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Chanida
      Dear Venerable Dhammadinna, I think both terms should be fine to refer to monks going for alms round. The term piṇḍac�ra is undoubtedly correct. It is
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 28, 2013
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        Dear Venerable Dhammadinna,



        I think both terms should be fine to refer to monks' going for alms
        round.



        The term piṇḍacâra is undoubtedly correct. It is found in
        verses in Suttanipâta (Sn72, 137) and Apadâna (Ap 24,201, 272,
        516) where it comes with verbs of car root. More can be found in
        commentaries where it is used more with verbs of gam root.



        As Bryan explains, the term piṇḍapâta is used mostly in the
        sense of alms food. But in the compound
        piṇḍapâta-paá¹­ikkanta which is found frequently in the
        Pali canon to refer to monks returning from alms round, I think the word
        piṇḍapâta can have an extended sense of going for alms round
        too.



        It is interesting to note that Pali canonical texts refer to monks who
        routinely go for alms round only as piṇḍapâtika, except in
        the Vinaya-piá¹­aka where both piṇḍapâtika and
        piṇḍacârika are used perhaps interchangeably. This seems to
        reinforce the idea that the term piṇḍapâta can refer to the
        act of going for alms round too; for if it only refers to alms food, the
        compound piṇḍapâtika may refer to any monk in the sense of
        'one who depends on alms offering', which contradicts its usage in the
        Pali canon.



        Hence, it seems to me that both piṇḍapâta and
        piṇḍacâra can be used interchangeably to refer to monks'
        going for alms round. It may be interesting to note also that a
        Gândhârî ms has 'piṇḍacâra-paá¹­ikkanta' instead
        of 'piṇḍapâta-paá¹­ikkanta' as found in the Pali canon.



        Yours respectfully,

        Chanida
      • Kumara Bhikkhu
        Allow me to provide some input. Since pindapata means alms food , it is perfectly correct to say, We are going for pindapata (alms food). However, it
        Message 3 of 4 , May 5 2:30 AM
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          Allow me to provide some input. Since 'pindapata'
          means 'alms food', it is perfectly correct to
          say, "We are going for pindapata (alms food)."
          However, it would not make sense to say "We get
          food by pindapata," as it translates to "We get
          food by alms food." It would be fine though to say, "We get food by pindacara."

          The term 'pindapata' is commonly used these days
          in the Sri Lankan and Thai tradition. In
          Malaysia, I think it was us (the monks at
          Sasanarakkha) who began using 'pindacara' perhaps
          a little over 10 years ago. The matter was
          pointed out to me by my teacher, Bhante
          Aggacitta, as I was picking up Pali from him. I
          then suggested that we use this "new" term
          instead. He agreed, and so that's how it started.
          We are kind of a reformist sangha. :-)

          kb

          P.S.: Btw, this egroup doesn't allow rich text,
          much less Unicode. So, better stick to plain text.

          Chanida wrote thus at 01:52 AM 29-04-13:

          >Dear Venerable Dhammadinna,
          >
          >
          >
          >I think both terms should be fine to refer to monks' going for alms
          >round.
          >
          >
          >
          >The term piṇḍacâra is undoubtedly correct. It is found in
          >verses in Suttanipâta (Sn72, 137) and Apadâna (Ap 24,201, 272,
          >516) where it comes with verbs of car root. More can be found in
          >commentaries where it is used more with verbs of gam root.
          >
          >
          >
          >As Bryan explains, the term piṇḍapâta is used mostly in the
          >sense of alms food. But in the compound
          >piṇḍapâta-paá¹­ikkanta which is found frequently in the
          >Pali canon to refer to monks returning from alms round, I think the word
          >piṇḍapâta can have an extended sense of going for alms round
          >too.
          >
          >
          >
          >It is interesting to note that Pali canonical texts refer to monks who
          >routinely go for alms round only as piṇḍapâtika, except in
          >the Vinaya-piá¹­aka where both piṇḍapâtika and
          >piṇḍacârika are used perhaps interchangeably. This seems to
          >reinforce the idea that the term piṇḍapâta can refer to the
          >act of going for alms round too; for if it only refers to alms food, the
          >compound piṇḍapâtika may refer to any monk in the sense of
          >'one who depends on alms offering', which contradicts its usage in the
          >Pali canon.
          >
          >
          >
          >Hence, it seems to me that both piṇḍapâta and
          >piṇḍacâra can be used interchangeably to refer to monks'
          >going for alms round. It may be interesting to note also that a
          >Gândhârî ms has 'piṇḍacâra-paá¹­ikkanta' instead
          >of 'piṇḍapâta-paá¹­ikkanta' as found in the Pali canon.
          >
          >
          >
          >Yours respectfully,
          >
          >Chanida
          >
          >
          >
          >
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