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Re: The Twin Miracle, Yamaka Patihara

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  • Chanida
    Dear Frank, On preparing for the Sunday dhamma study class, I incidentally came across this relevant reference, being another version of the Buddha s guarantee
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 21 9:06 AM
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      Dear Frank,

      On preparing for the Sunday dhamma study class, I incidentally came across this relevant reference, being another version of the Buddha's guarantee to Nanda in the commentary to AN.I which is probably clearer than the one from Dhammapadaṭṭhakathā you referred to:

      "Nanda, evarūpā accharā samaṇadhammaṃ karontānaṃ na dullabhāti. Sace me, bhante bhagavā, pāṭibhogo hoti, ahaṃ samaṇadhammaṃ karissāmīti. Vissattho tvaṃ, nanda, samaṇadhammaṃ karohi. Sace te sappaṭisandhikā kālakiriyā bhavissati, ahaṃ etāsaṃ paṭilābhatthāya pāṭibhogoti." (AN-a 1.316-7)

      Rough translation:

      Buddha: "Nanda, such celestial nymphs are not hard to be obtained for those who practise samaṇa-dhamma."

      Nanda: If the Blessed one will be my guarantor, I will do it.

      Buddha: "Be confident, Nanda. Practise samaṇa-dhammmma. If there will be death with (future) rebirth for you, I am guarantor for the obtainment of those nymphs."

      As for another example of another killer who attained dhamma, see the story of Tambadāṭhikacoraghātaka in the Dhammapadaṭṭhakathā 2.202-208.

      As for the comparison of Ajātasattu, you may recollect that he did not practise himself according to Buddha's teachings as did Angulimala. The best Ajatasattu did was only 'dāna', and he has not abandoned any desire. See the story of Jotika where Ajātasattu's greed was mentioned.

      Metta,
      Chanida

      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Frank K <frank48k@...> wrote:
      >
      > The problem is the Buddha guaranteed his cousin Nanda
      > celestial nymphs if he didn't disrobe and remained in the order. If the
      > Buddha had made the guarantee in a not so ironclad way, I wouldn't have a
      > problem with that either. For example, if he said, "Nanda, if you don't
      > disrobe, I will show you how to develop samatha to the point where you
      > could easily attain celestial nymphs." Then the Buddha would be stating a
      > truth, and not making ironclad guarantees that seem to be not something an
      > enlightened being would say.
      >
      > In the case of Angulimala, is there any other precedent in the Canon where
      > someone can commit such heinous crimes as Angulimala and still attain
      > arahantship or even stream entry in that safe lifetime?
    • Frank K
      Dear Chanida, The diacritics in your pali quotes are not coming out correctly through the pali email subscription or looking at the message itself on the yahoo
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 24 8:13 AM
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        Dear Chanida,
        The diacritics in your pali quotes are not coming out correctly through the
        pali email subscription or looking at the message itself on the yahoo server
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/16021

        Getting unicode to work on yahoogroups is possible, but it can be tricky.
        You can try the velthuis converter that they've been discussing recently.

        metta,
        frank

        On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Chanida <jchanida@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Dear Frank,
        >
        > On preparing for the Sunday dhamma study class, I incidentally came across
        > this relevant reference, being another version of the Buddha's guarantee to
        > Nanda in the commentary to AN.I which is probably clearer than the one from
        > Dhammapadaṭṭhakathā you referred to:
        >
        > "Nanda, evarūpā accharā samaṇadhammaṃ
        > karontānaṃ na dullabhāti. Sace me, bhante bhagavā,
        > pāṭibhogo hoti, ahaṃ samaṇadhammaṃ
        > karissāmīti. Vissattho tvaṃ, nanda,
        > samaṇadhammaṃ karohi. Sace te sappaṭisandhikā
        > kālakiriyā bhavissati, ahaṃ etāsaṃ
        > paṭilābhatthāya pāṭibhogoti." (AN-a 1.316-7)
        >
        > Rough translation:
        >
        > Buddha: "Nanda, such celestial nymphs are not hard to be obtained for
        > those who practise samaṇa-dhamma."
        >
        > Nanda: If the Blessed one will be my guarantor, I will do it.
        >
        > Buddha: "Be confident, Nanda. Practise samaṇa-dhammmma. If there
        > will be death with (future) rebirth for you, I am guarantor for the
        > obtainment of those nymphs."
        >
        > As for another example of another killer who attained dhamma, see the
        > story of Tambadāṭhikacoraghātaka in the
        > Dhammapadaṭṭhakathā 2.202-208.
        >
        > As for the comparison of Ajātasattu, you may recollect that he did
        > not practise himself according to Buddha's teachings as did Angulimala. The
        > best Ajatasattu did was only 'dāna', and he has not abandoned any
        > desire. See the story of Jotika where Ajātasattu's greed was mentioned.
        >
        > Metta,
        > Chanida
        >
        >
        > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Frank K <frank48k@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > The problem is the Buddha guaranteed his cousin Nanda
        > > celestial nymphs if he didn't disrobe and remained in the order. If the
        > > Buddha had made the guarantee in a not so ironclad way, I wouldn't have a
        > > problem with that either. For example, if he said, "Nanda, if you don't
        > > disrobe, I will show you how to develop samatha to the point where you
        > > could easily attain celestial nymphs." Then the Buddha would be stating a
        > > truth, and not making ironclad guarantees that seem to be not something
        > an
        > > enlightened being would say.
        > >
        > > In the case of Angulimala, is there any other precedent in the Canon
        > where
        > > someone can commit such heinous crimes as Angulimala and still attain
        > > arahantship or even stream entry in that safe lifetime?
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kumara Bhikkhu
        I wonder if it s because this group is set to text only (i.e, no html). Yes, Velthuis is the safest bet here.
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 30 9:39 PM
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          I wonder if it's because this group is set to text only (i.e, no
          html). Yes, Velthuis is the safest bet here.

          Frank K wrote thus at 11:13 PM 24-03-13:
          >Dear Chanida,
          >The diacritics in your pali quotes are not coming out correctly through the
          >pali email subscription or looking at the message itself on the yahoo server
          >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/16021
          >
          >Getting unicode to work on yahoogroups is possible, but it can be tricky.
          >You can try the velthuis converter that they've been discussing recently.
          >
          >metta,
          >frank
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