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Re: [Pali] Unicode-Velthuis conversion

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  • Kumara Bhikkhu
    Thanks, Frank. Yes, I ve seen and used that before, when I had an older version of DPR on my old computer. I don t have DPR now, as I don t want to install
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 2, 2013
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      Thanks, Frank.

      Yes, I've seen and used that before, when I had an older version of
      DPR on my old computer. I don't have DPR now, as I don't want to
      install Firefox just for the purpose. (I'm using Opera and Chrome.
      For the Pali research purposes, I use CST4 and PCED1.91.) What you
      described is probably the newer version, which has more features, but
      has some bugs (according to my teacher, Bhante Aggacitta). I wonder
      if there's something independent: a JavaScript (on a website), freeware, etc.

      Frank K wrote thus at 11:32 AM 03-03-13:
      >digital pali reader does conversion both ways u->v, and v->u. it's
      >tricky to find those features though. i tried it out just now, the
      >way i got it to come up is first load up a sutta. on the window pane
      >that shows sutta text, on the upper left hand corner, there's a
      >symbol of 3 dots about the size of a screen alpha character. hover
      >your mouse cursor on top of the 3 dots, and it shows a submenu of
      >several hidden options. the option covert will pull up a window pane
      >on the bottom with several conversion options.
      >
      >On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 3:03 AM, Kumara Bhikkhu
      ><kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >Anyone know of any tool for Unicode to Velthuis conversion?
      >
      >kb
    • Frank K
      I think it s definitely worthwhile to install firefox just to have DPR. They always seem to keep adding nice new features, and the bugs your teacher are
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 3, 2013
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        I think it's definitely worthwhile to install firefox just to have DPR.
        They always seem to keep adding nice new features, and the bugs your
        teacher are talking about may be gone by now. The current version has a
        sanskrit dictionary, Thai tipitaka, offline access to insight english
        translation links to all the pali suttas that are translated, the word
        analysis shows mappings for conjugations and declensions. I think DPR is
        less than 100 megs total with all the extras.

        On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...>wrote:

        > Thanks, Frank.
        >
        > Yes, I've seen and used that before, when I had an older version of DPR on
        > my old computer. I don't have DPR now, as I don't want to install Firefox
        > just for the purpose. (I'm using Opera and Chrome. For the Pali research
        > purposes, I use CST4 and PCED1.91.) What you described is probably the
        > newer version, which has more features, but has some bugs (according to my
        > teacher, Bhante Aggacitta). I wonder if there's something independent: a
        > JavaScript (on a website), freeware, etc.
        >
        > Frank K wrote thus at 11:32 AM 03-03-13:
        >
        > digital pali reader does conversion both ways u->v, and v->u. it's tricky
        >> to find those features though. i tried it out just now, the way i got it to
        >> come up is first load up a sutta. on the window pane that shows sutta text,
        >> on the upper left hand corner, there's a symbol of 3 dots about the size of
        >> a screen alpha character. hover your mouse cursor on top of the 3 dots, and
        >> it shows a submenu of several hidden options. the option covert will pull
        >> up a window pane on the bottom with several conversion options.
        >>
        >> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 3:03 AM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...>
        >> wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >> Anyone know of any tool for Unicode to Velthuis conversion?
        >>
        >> kb
        >>
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kumara Bhikkhu
        Hmm... sounds tempting.... :-) I ll give it a serious thought. Maybe I ll download the smallest version Firefox that it s compatible with.
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 3, 2013
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          Hmm... sounds tempting.... :-)
          I'll give it a serious thought. Maybe I'll download the smallest
          version Firefox that it's compatible with.

          Frank K wrote thus at 12:54 AM 04-03-13:
          >I think it's definitely worthwhile to install firefox just to have
          >DPR. They always seem to keep adding nice new features, and the bugs
          >your teacher are talking about may be gone by now. The current
          >version has a sanskrit dictionary, Thai tipitaka, offline access to
          >insight english translation links to all the pali suttas that are
          >translated, the word analysis shows mappings for conjugations and
          >declensions. I think DPR is less than 100 megs total with all the extras.
        • Kumara Bhikkhu
          Thanks for the offer, but I don t have Word. on this new notebook, and not plan to getting it. Would be a good to share it on the files section though.
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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            Thanks for the offer, but I don't have Word. on this new notebook,
            and not plan to getting it.
            Would be a good to share it on the files section though.

            John Kelly wrote thus at 12:26 PM 04-03-13:
            >I have some Word doc macros that convert from Unicode to Velthuis
            >and vice versa. Would you like me to send you those or perhaps even
            >load them to the the Files section for this group?
            >I find them quite handy, since I don't need to set up a special
            >keyboard for entering Pali text - I just type them in in velthuis
            >then run the appropriate macro.
          • alexgenaud
            Hi Kumara Bhikkhu, I have written several such conversions. Most likely, I can convert your text as well. It s not as straight forward as simply saying
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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              Hi Kumara Bhikkhu,

              I have written several such conversions. Most likely, I can convert your text as well. It's not as straight forward as simply saying 'convert Unicode to Velthuis' as there is more involved: byte encoding, entity references, etc. Are you converting text on a web site? Personal files?

              As an example, I have a script which automatically converts an entire website between five transliterations: ASCII, MozPali, Velthuis, a Mobile (IAST hybrid), and Unicode NCR.

              http://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pali/an/01_ones/an01.188-295.pali.bd.htm#217

              /u/ Etad aggaṃ bhikkhave, mama sāvakānaṃ bhikkhūnaṃ cittakathikānaṃ yad idaṃ Kumāra-kassapo

              /v/ Etad agga.m bhikkhave, mama saavakaana.m bhikkhuuna.m cittakathikaana.m yad ida.m Kumaara-kassapo

              /a/ Etad aggam bhikkhave, mama savakanam bhikkhunam cittakathikanam yad idam Kumara-kassapo

              /m/ Etad aggaŋ bhikkhave, mama sāvakānaŋ bhikkhūnaŋ cittakathikānaŋ yad idaŋ Kumāra-kassapo

              Cheers,
              Alex



              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
              >
              > Anyone know of any tool for Unicode to Velthuis conversion?
              >
              > kb
              >
            • alexgenaud
              Venerable Kumara, The menu on the top of this page may present a more obvious example. Indeed, is this your own translation? Pañc ime bhikkhave caŋkame
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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                Venerable Kumara,

                The menu on the top of this page may present a more obvious example. Indeed, is this your own translation?

                Pañc'ime bhikkhave caŋkame ānisaṃsā.

                Pa~nc'ime bhikkhave ca'nkame aanisa.msaa.

                http://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/ati/an/05_fives/an05.029.agku.ati.htm#1

                http://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pali/an/05_fives/an05.029.pali.bd.htm#1

                Cheers,
                Alex
              • Kumara Bhikkhu
                Interesting. Thanks for your kind offer. My requirement is simply converting occasional texts. Nina pointed me to
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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                  Interesting. Thanks for your kind offer.

                  My requirement is simply converting occasional texts. Nina pointed me
                  to http://www.granthamandira.com/diCrunch/diCrunch.php
                  which works just fine.

                  As I may need to convert without Net access, I've downloaded the
                  script linked at the bottom:
                  http://www.granthamandira.com/diCrunch/diCrunch.zip
                  and installed xampplite to run it. (My first time doing such a
                  thing.) Works just fine. I'd probably hack it later to make
                  Unicode-to-Velthuis the default.

                  I've also found another php code at
                  http://www.gosinga.net/wp-content/opensource/velthuis-unicode.html
                  It's only one way, but I suppose it should be easy enough to hack it
                  to create another that does the opposite.

                  Now, it would be a whole lot better to have these converted to
                  javascript so that I don't have to use xampplite...

                  In case some of you are wondering why I'm needing Velthuis, it's
                  because I'm still using Eudora as my POP email client. For me it's
                  only 'fault' is lack of Unicode support.

                  kb

                  alexgenaud wrote thus at 08:08 PM 04-03-13:
                  >Hi Kumara Bhikkhu,
                  >
                  >I have written several such conversions. Most likely, I can convert
                  >your text as well. It's not as straight forward as simply saying
                  >'convert Unicode to Velthuis' as there is more involved: byte
                  >encoding, entity references, etc. Are you converting text on a web
                  >site? Personal files?
                  >
                  >As an example, I have a script which automatically converts an
                  >entire website between five transliterations: ASCII, MozPali,
                  >Velthuis, a Mobile (IAST hybrid), and Unicode NCR.
                  >
                  >http://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pali/an/01_ones/an01.188-295.pali.bd.htm#217

                  <snip>
                • alexgenaud
                  Hello again Kumara Bhikkhu, I welcome you to try this javascript solution: http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 13, 2013
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                    Hello again Kumara Bhikkhu,

                    I welcome you to try this javascript solution:

                    http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/
                    <http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/index.html>

                    Feel free to download the two
                    <http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/index.html> files
                    <http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/jquery-1.9.1.min.js> , the first
                    released under the standard Poetic License
                    <http://genaud.net/2005/10/poetic-license/> . Let me know if it needs
                    some adjustments.


                    > ... why I'm needing Velthuis, it's
                    > because I'm still using Eudora as
                    > my POP email client. For me it's
                    > only 'fault' is lack of Unicode support.

                    Oh, I fully understand the frustration of Unicode. It's a pity we didn't
                    standardize on a simpler but faithful ASCII transliteration ages ago. I
                    propose an r preceding the retroflex, double vowel for macron as
                    Velthuis, and perhaps j and g preceding the palatal and valar n
                    respectively. Otherwise, in my opinion Trenckner had the most elegant
                    scheme <http://pali.hum.ku.dk/cpd/intro/trenckner.html> .

                    Cheers,
                    Alex





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Kumara Bhikkhu
                    Cool! At first I was wondering where to click. Then somewhat intuitively I just clicked. Haha! Well done! I appreciate it very much.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 13, 2013
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                      Cool!

                      At first I was wondering where to click. Then somewhat intuitively I
                      just clicked. Haha!

                      Well done! I appreciate it very much.

                      alexgenaud wrote thus at 08:13 AM 14-03-13:
                      >Hello again Kumara Bhikkhu,
                      >
                      >I welcome you to try this javascript solution:
                      >
                      >http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/
                      ><http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/index.html>
                      >
                      >Feel free to download the two
                      ><http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/index.html> files
                      ><http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/jquery-1.9.1.min.js> , the first
                      >released under the standard Poetic License
                      ><http://genaud.net/2005/10/poetic-license/> . Let me know if it needs
                      >some adjustments.
                      >
                      >
                      > > ... why I'm needing Velthuis, it's
                      > > because I'm still using Eudora as
                      > > my POP email client. For me it's
                      > > only 'fault' is lack of Unicode support.
                      >
                      >Oh, I fully understand the frustration of Unicode. It's a pity we didn't
                      >standardize on a simpler but faithful ASCII transliteration ages ago. I
                      >propose an r preceding the retroflex, double vowel for macron as
                      >Velthuis, and perhaps j and g preceding the palatal and valar n
                      >respectively. Otherwise, in my opinion Trenckner had the most elegant
                      >scheme <http://pali.hum.ku.dk/cpd/intro/trenckner.html> .
                      >
                      >Cheers,
                      >Alex
                    • alexgenaud
                      Thanks. I hope it works for you, otherwise let me know how it could be improved, other characters like Sanskrit, other transliterations, or whatever. When I
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 15, 2013
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                        Thanks. I hope it works for you, otherwise let me know how it could be improved, other characters like Sanskrit, other transliterations, or whatever. When I actually tried it myself I was annoyed by three things. So, now (1) tab, return, or space will update all other fields, (2) the input fields are bigger, and (3) Velthuis is on top then Unicode.

                        http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/



                        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Cool!
                        >
                        > At first I was wondering where to click. Then somewhat intuitively I
                        > just clicked. Haha!
                        >
                        > Well done! I appreciate it very much.
                      • Kumara Bhikkhu
                        The arrangement makes more sense, and the interface is more user-friendly. I think adding a concise instruction would be good. Suggestion: Instruction 1. Enter
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 18, 2013
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                          The arrangement makes more sense, and the interface is more user-friendly.

                          I think adding a concise instruction would be good. Suggestion:
                          Instruction
                          1. Enter Romanised Pali text into the box according to the script.
                          2. Press tab, return/enter, or space.
                          This service depends on JavaScript.
                          Presently, the JavaScript also converts ee and oo into e-macron and
                          o-macron. Not a big issue, but there are no such Pali characters.

                          Can you also provide for m-upperdot?

                          Also, I think a better name is Romanized Pali Script Conversion.

                          When we're satisfied with this, I would like to recommend this to be
                          listed at http://www.accesstoinsight.org/outsources/pali.html
                          Hope you are okay with that.

                          kb

                          alexgenaud wrote thus at 12:41 PM 16-03-13:
                          >Thanks. I hope it works for you, otherwise let me know how it could
                          >be improved, other characters like Sanskrit, other transliterations,
                          >or whatever. When I actually tried it myself I was annoyed by three
                          >things. So, now (1) tab, return, or space will update all other
                          >fields, (2) the input fields are bigger, and (3) Velthuis is on top
                          >then Unicode.
                          >
                          >http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Cool!
                          > >
                          > > At first I was wondering where to click. Then somewhat intuitively I
                          > > just clicked. Haha!
                          > >
                          > > Well done! I appreciate it very much.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >------------------------------------
                          >
                          >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                          >Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                          >[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                          >[Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
                          >[Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                          >[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                          >Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
                          >or web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • alexgenaud
                          Hello Kumara, Thank you for the tips. I have updated the converter as per your suggestions. Javascript will be mentioned only if disabled, the instructions can
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 30, 2013
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                            Hello Kumara,

                            Thank you for the tips.

                            I have updated the converter as per your suggestions. Javascript will be mentioned only if disabled, the instructions can be hidden, and m-upperdot will correspond with Velthuis 'm and 'M. I would be happy if the page were listed on ATI.

                            http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/

                            Cheers,
                            Alex


                            > The arrangement makes more sense, and the interface is more user-friendly.
                            >
                            > I think adding a concise instruction would be good. Suggestion:
                            > Instruction
                            > 1. Enter Romanised Pali text into the box according to the script.
                            > 2. Press tab, return/enter, or space.
                            > This service depends on JavaScript.
                            > Presently, the JavaScript also converts ee and oo into e-macron and
                            > o-macron. Not a big issue, but there are no such Pali characters.
                            >
                            > Can you also provide for m-upperdot?
                            >
                            > Also, I think a better name is Romanized Pali Script Conversion.
                            >
                            > When we're satisfied with this, I would like to recommend this to be
                            > listed at http://www.accesstoinsight.org/outsources/pali.html
                            > Hope you are okay with that.
                            >
                            > kb





                            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > The arrangement makes more sense, and the interface is more user-friendly.
                            >
                            > I think adding a concise instruction would be good. Suggestion:
                            > Instruction
                            > 1. Enter Romanised Pali text into the box according to the script.
                            > 2. Press tab, return/enter, or space.
                            > This service depends on JavaScript.
                            > Presently, the JavaScript also converts ee and oo into e-macron and
                            > o-macron. Not a big issue, but there are no such Pali characters.
                            >
                            > Can you also provide for m-upperdot?
                            >
                            > Also, I think a better name is Romanized Pali Script Conversion.
                            >
                            > When we're satisfied with this, I would like to recommend this to be
                            > listed at http://www.accesstoinsight.org/outsources/pali.html
                            > Hope you are okay with that.
                            >
                            > kb
                            >
                            > alexgenaud wrote thus at 12:41 PM 16-03-13:
                            > >Thanks. I hope it works for you, otherwise let me know how it could
                            > >be improved, other characters like Sanskrit, other transliterations,
                            > >or whatever. When I actually tried it myself I was annoyed by three
                            > >things. So, now (1) tab, return, or space will update all other
                            > >fields, (2) the input fields are bigger, and (3) Velthuis is on top
                            > >then Unicode.
                            > >
                            > >http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Cool!
                            > > >
                            > > > At first I was wondering where to click. Then somewhat intuitively I
                            > > > just clicked. Haha!
                            > > >
                            > > > Well done! I appreciate it very much.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                            > >Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                            > >[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                            > >[Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
                            > >[Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                            > >[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                            > >Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
                            > >or web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Kumara Bhikkhu
                            Well thought out. Minor correction: m-dot-above is represented in Velthuis as m. (This is in keeping with the guttural nasal (n-dot-above) being represented
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 31, 2013
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                              Well thought out.

                              Minor correction: m-dot-above is represented in Velthuis as "m.
                              (This is in keeping with the guttural nasal (n-dot-above) being
                              represented as "n.)

                              Also, I think having the instructions not shown by default would make
                              more sense, since one would not want to see it anymore after getting
                              a hang of it. I'm aware that they are 2 separate files. I'm thinking
                              for those who would use it online only. It's a minor point though.

                              Wonder which I should ask John of ATI to link to.

                              kb

                              alexgenaud wrote thus at 02:19 AM 31-03-13:
                              >Hello Kumara,
                              >\\
                              >Thank you for the tips.
                              >
                              >I have updated the converter as per your suggestions. Javascript
                              >will be mentioned only if disabled, the instructions can be hidden,
                              >and m-upperdot will correspond with Velthuis 'm and 'M. I would be
                              >happy if the page were listed on ATI.
                              >
                              >http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/
                              >
                              >Cheers,
                              >Alex
                              >
                              >
                              > > The arrangement makes more sense, and the interface is more user-friendly.
                              > >
                              > > I think adding a concise instruction would be good. Suggestion:
                              > > Instruction
                              > > 1. Enter Romanised Pali text into the box according to the script.
                              > > 2. Press tab, return/enter, or space.
                              > > This service depends on JavaScript.
                              > > Presently, the JavaScript also converts ee and oo into e-macron and
                              > > o-macron. Not a big issue, but there are no such Pali characters.
                              > >
                              > > Can you also provide for m-upperdot?
                              > >
                              > > Also, I think a better name is Romanized Pali Script Conversion.
                              > >
                              > > When we're satisfied with this, I would like to recommend this to be
                              > > listed at http://www.accesstoinsight.org/outsources/pali.html
                              > > Hope you are okay with that.
                              > >
                              > > kb
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > The arrangement makes more sense, and the interface is more user-friendly.
                              > >
                              > > I think adding a concise instruction would be good. Suggestion:
                              > > Instruction
                              > > 1. Enter Romanised Pali text into the box according to the script.
                              > > 2. Press tab, return/enter, or space.
                              > > This service depends on JavaScript.
                              > > Presently, the JavaScript also converts ee and oo into e-macron and
                              > > o-macron. Not a big issue, but there are no such Pali characters.
                              > >
                              > > Can you also provide for m-upperdot?
                              > >
                              > > Also, I think a better name is Romanized Pali Script Conversion.
                              > >
                              > > When we're satisfied with this, I would like to recommend this to be
                              > > listed at http://www.accesstoinsight.org/outsources/pali.html
                              > > Hope you are okay with that.
                              > >
                              > > kb
                              > >
                              > > alexgenaud wrote thus at 12:41 PM 16-03-13:
                              > > >Thanks. I hope it works for you, otherwise let me know how it could
                              > > >be improved, other characters like Sanskrit, other transliterations,
                              > > >or whatever. When I actually tried it myself I was annoyed by three
                              > > >things. So, now (1) tab, return, or space will update all other
                              > > >fields, (2) the input fields are bigger, and (3) Velthuis is on top
                              > > >then Unicode.
                              > > >
                              > > >http://genaud.net/2013/03/convert/
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Cool!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > At first I was wondering where to click. Then somewhat intuitively I
                              > > > > just clicked. Haha!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Well done! I appreciate it very much.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >------------------------------------
                              > > >
                              > > >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                              > > >Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                              > > >[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                              > > >[Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
                              > > >[Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                              > > >[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                              > > >Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
                              > > >or web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >------------------------------------
                              >
                              >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                              >Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                              >[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                              >[Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
                              >[Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                              >[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                              >Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
                              >or web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
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