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Re: [Pali] All of that is consid ered JhÄ na ?

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  • Frank K
    Dear Ven. KB, With the Pali sutta description of jhāna, 16 steps of ānāpāna, etc., being so terse, it s hard to know exactly what the Buddha s
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 11, 2013
      Dear Ven. KB,
      With the Pali sutta description of jhāna, 16 steps of ānāpāna, etc., being
      so terse, it's hard to know exactly what the Buddha's instructions on jhāna
      actually entails. So it may be that what constitutes jhāna is broader than
      we may think. But even using an attitude of keeping the definition broad
      and open, it still seems that the Vism. is describing a different practice
      for development of jhāna than the terse Pali sutta passages. Another
      example of the Buddha's terse instructions being frustratingly lacking in
      detail is the development of knowledge and vision, especially the 3 higher
      knowledges. In one of the suttas on iddhipada, the Buddha said a couple
      lines on developing the perception of light, in all directions, so night is
      like day, day is like night. And the next line he is talking about the
      supernormal powers already, with no details on how one gets there. Whatever
      problems people have with Vism., you have to give them credit for the fact
      that using the detailed instructions in the Vism. on Jhāna and supernormal
      power, there are practitioners today who were able to do it.


      On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 8:38 PM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...>wrote:

      > **
      > I fully agree with that. Richard Shankman's book
      > "The Experience of Samadhi" made this very clear
      > and convincing. Theravada (Visuddhimagga) jhana
      > is not the same as Early Buddhist (Sutta) jhana.
      > For a Theravadin diehard, It's a pretty difficult pill to swallow!
      > kb
      > Gerard wrote thus at 06:58 PM 05-01-13:
      > >Interesting in this connection are the ideas
      > >about meditation and jhana of the American monk Vimalaramsi (
      > dhammasukha.org).
      > >
      > >According to him the idea of jhana as
      > >absorption, or even, concentration meditation,
      > >which is, in vipassana-circles, the common vue,
      > >is utterly false. It is based on the
      > >commentaries, he says, in particular on the
      > >Visuddhimagga, but not on the Sutta’s.
      > >
      > >Metta,
      > >
      > >Gerard Blok,
      > >Amsterdam
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >From: Kumara Bhikkhu
      > >Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:06 AM
      > >To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      > >Subject: Re: [Pali] All of that is considered JhÄ na ?
      > >
      > >
      > >The reason is clear to me, since (for me) jhana simply means meditation.
      > >
      > >I've included this in my book on jhana and
      > >samadhi. It's still growing as more evidences and
      > >ideas to connect them come up. I hope I don't spend my whole life on this!
      > >
      > >Frank K wrote thus at 08:11 AM 22-12-12:
      > > >Dear Pali friends,
      > > >
      > > >This part is interesting.
      > > >I'm reading B.Bodhi's new AN translations book right now.
      > > >
      > > >from AN 1.382 to AN 1.554, it seems to qualify many activities as being
      > > >"jhÄ na",
      > > >for example, AN 1.382 - AN 1.393

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