Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project

Expand Messages
  • Ong Teng Kee
    I found out last night that VRI cdrom is correct in Myanmar script but not in Roman which could be the software conversion is faulty.They type in myanmar
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 5, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      I found out last night that VRI cdrom is correct in Myanmar script but not in Roman which could be the software conversion is faulty.They type in myanmar script follow the book from sixth council. I compare a abhidhamma tika in Thuddhamma series (pre sixth council)but it is not the same with the cdrom which prove that your saying is wrong.Most of those pre sicth council books are without heavier ink for commented word-xxxxx ti,so they cannot type those in the cdrom without new sixth council books.Also pre sixth council books have reading connected a lot compare to the new one.



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@...>
      Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 07:04:13 -0500
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project

      > I like to add that the nun is Supaphan Na Bangchang if I am not wrong.She is a student of Lily De silva .She did edit majjhima tika mulapariyaya vagga with almost all sinhala readings on the main line.
      > As I have to repeat -We do not need any more new tipitaka only or with the same com and tika printed edition but we do need those lost tika like linatthadipani on patisambhida by vacisara,netti ganthi etc where it can help us to understand about misunderstood topic in sukkavipasaka etc.
      >
      >
      > --- Original Message -----
      > From: "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@...>
      > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 06:49:48 -0500
      > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
      >
      > > I have seen it from one of my friends.It is just a all thai readings in the main reading which is not the way to edit pali text.No Lanna thai was put in the main line.They did not edit tika like samyutta tika which no edition other than from myanmar.we must abandon those readings in the leaves even it is from our own country manuscripts.
      > >
      > > I have many non sixth council printed texts from myanmar which I found the readings are not the same with the cdrom.
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Kumaara Bhikkhu <venkumara@...>
      > > Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:04:12 +0800
      > > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
      > >
      > > > Dear all,
      > > >
      > > > I was informed by Ven. Sujato (an Australian monk, who conducted a retreat here) of a new Pali Tipitaka project undertaken by a university (MahaCulalonkorn?) in Thailand. Here's some background information about it:
      > > >
      > > > 1. It all started when the mother of one of the people in the project went to Rangoon (now Yangon) to observe the proceedings of the Sixth Council. She was so inspired by it that, before she died, she asked that her son print the Tipitaka for free distribution.
      > > >
      > > > 2. When the VRI CSCD come out, the son decided to produce a print version of it, thereby fulfilling his mother's dying wish.
      > > >
      > > > 3. However, as he went over the texts, he found errors. The more he checked the more errors he found.
      > > >
      > > > 4. This led to a big project under the auspices of a Thai university.
      > > >
      > > > 5. From the research, they found out that:
      > > > There are more than 30,000 discrepancies found in the VRI version.
      > > > The VRI CSCD does not contain the Sixth Council version. (Sayadaw U Silananda was right.)
      > > > Somehow, it is found to have taken the Fifth Council (Mandalay) version as its source.
      > > >
      > > > 6. Instead of reproducing the Sixth Council version (which many scholars outside Myanmar are not too happy about), they decided to produce a new version. To do this, the project took a few years and a lot of human and computer power. Among the scholars was a nun who had learnt many ancient writings to lead the transcription work. With her help, they were able to make comparison among more than ten different ancient scripts of the Pali scriptures.
      > > >
      > > > 7. The texts went through repeated visual *and* verbal proofreading. So, it should have minimal typographic errors.
      > > >
      > > > 8. The Pali Tipitaka Project has ended. As I was told, they have printed 1000 sets for free distribution and have recently launched it. If I remember correctly, they have included all the commentaries as well.
      > > >
      > > > Please don't ask me where to get them. We managed the contact the man (whose mother's wish started all this), and he only said he'll keep us informed. That was a few weeks ago. No news since then.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > peace
      > > >
      > > > Kumâra Bhikkhu
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
      > > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
      > > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
      > > > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
      > > > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > _______________________________________________
      > > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
      > > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
      > >
      > > Meet Singles
      > > http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
      > >
      > >
      > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
      > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
      > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
      > > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
      > > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      >
      > --
      > _______________________________________________
      > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
      > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
      >
      > Meet Singles
      > http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
      >
      >
      > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
      > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
      > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
      > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
      > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >

      --
      _______________________________________________
      Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
      http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

      Meet Singles
      http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
    • tzungkuen
      Dear Ong Teng Kee I am very interested in what you said --- it can help us to understand about misunderstood topic in sukkavipasaka etc. Could you talk more
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 5, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Ong Teng Kee
        I am very interested in what you said ---'it can help us to understand about misunderstood topic in sukkavipasaka etc.' Could you talk more about it? Why did you use 'misunderstood topic in sukkavipasaka'? Did you mean that the meaning of 'sukkavipasaka' was misunderstood by people? And how will the lost books you mentioned help us? Thanks in advance.

        with metta

        Tzungkuen


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Ong Teng Kee
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 8:04 PM
        Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project


        I like to add that the nun is Supaphan Na Bangchang if I am not wrong.She is a student of Lily De silva .She did edit majjhima tika mulapariyaya vagga with almost all sinhala readings on the main line.
        As I have to repeat -We do not need any more new tipitaka only or with the same com and tika printed edition but we do need those lost tika like linatthadipani on patisambhida by vacisara,netti ganthi etc where it can help us to understand about misunderstood topic in sukkavipasaka etc.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
        Dear Ven. Kumara and friends, Bhante, thanks for the info. And thanks for confirming that there are indeed errors in the CSCD. Please help me with some
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 5, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Ven. Kumara and friends,

          Bhante, thanks for the info. And thanks for confirming that there are
          indeed errors in the CSCD.

          Please help me with some questions:

          1. How do the different copies of the Pali Tipitaka (Thai, Sinhala,
          Burmese) differ? I have a good idea of the difference between the
          Chinese Agama and the Pali Nikaya, but I am not clear about the
          distinctions of the variants of the Nikayas in Thai, Sinhala and
          Burmese (scripts).

          2. The CSCD claims to contain the 6th council version, but is the
          5th. What are the differences between the two versions?

          3. Which council versions do the following available tipitaka come
          from:
          (a) PTS Pali Tipitaka,
          (b) Budsir: http://www.budsir.org
          (c) SLTP Buddha Jayanti Tipitaka:
          http://www.gold.ac.uk/history/ibric.htm

          Thank you.

          metta,
          Yong Peng.
        • Kumaara Bhikkhu
          ... You might be right. Can you share a few things: 1. Are you referring to the Myanmar or the Roman script? 2. How about other books? Did you find the same?
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 5, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            At 07:13 PM 05-01-03, Ong Teng Kee wrote:
            >I found out last night that VRI cdrom is correct in Myanmar script but not in Roman which could be the software conversion is faulty.They type in myanmar script follow the book from sixth council.
            >I compare a abhidhamma tika in Thuddhamma series (pre sixth council)but it is not the same with the cdrom which prove that your saying is wrong.

            You might be right.

            Can you share a few things:
            1. Are you referring to the Myanmar or the Roman script?
            2. How about other books? Did you find the same?
            3. Can you give us a short example? With that, we may get to see how the machine conversion could have gone wrong. I can read Myanmar scripts --- though at a crawling speed.


            >Most of those pre sicth council books are without heavier ink for commented word-xxxxx ti,so they cannot type those in the cdrom without new sixth council books.

            You've got a point there.

            I thinking: Can't the VRI people bold them themselves?


            >Also pre sixth council books have reading connected a lot compare to the new one.

            Sorry, can you come again?

            I still trust Sayadaw U Silananda's words on the issue that VRI's CSCD does not contain the CS version. He *was* among the editors of the council. I don't see him as one who makes rash statements.

            kb

            >----- Original Message -----
            >From: "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@...>
            >Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 07:04:13 -0500
            >To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
            >
            >> I like to add that the nun is Supaphan Na Bangchang if I am not wrong.She is a student of Lily De silva .She did edit majjhima tika mulapariyaya vagga with almost all sinhala readings on the main line.
            >> As I have to repeat -We do not need any more new tipitaka only or with the same com and tika printed edition but we do need those lost tika like linatthadipani on patisambhida by vacisara,netti ganthi etc where it can help us to understand about misunderstood topic in sukkavipasaka etc.
            >>
            >>
            >> --- Original Message -----
            >> From: "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@...>
            >> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 06:49:48 -0500
            >> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
            >>
            >> > I have seen it from one of my friends.It is just a all thai readings in the main reading which is not the way to edit pali text.No Lanna thai was put in the main line.They did not edit tika like samyutta tika which no edition other than from myanmar.we must abandon those readings in the leaves even it is from our own country manuscripts.
            >> >
            >> > I have many non sixth council printed texts from myanmar which I found the readings are not the same with the cdrom.
            >> >
            >> > ----- Original Message -----
            >> > From: Kumaara Bhikkhu <venkumara@...>
            >> > Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:04:12 +0800
            >> > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
            >> > Subject: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
            >> >
            >> > > Dear all,
            >> > >
            >> > > I was informed by Ven. Sujato (an Australian monk, who conducted a retreat here) of a new Pali Tipitaka project undertaken by a university (MahaCulalonkorn?) in Thailand. Here's some background information about it:
            >> > >
            >> > > 1. It all started when the mother of one of the people in the project went to Rangoon (now Yangon) to observe the proceedings of the Sixth Council. She was so inspired by it that, before she died, she asked that her son print the Tipitaka for free distribution.
            >> > >
            >> > > 2. When the VRI CSCD come out, the son decided to produce a print version of it, thereby fulfilling his mother's dying wish.
            >> > >
            >> > > 3. However, as he went over the texts, he found errors. The more he checked the more errors he found.
            >> > >
            >> > > 4. This led to a big project under the auspices of a Thai university.
            >> > >
            >> > > 5. From the research, they found out that:
            >> > > There are more than 30,000 discrepancies found in the VRI version.
            >> > > The VRI CSCD does not contain the Sixth Council version. (Sayadaw U Silananda was right.)
            >> > > Somehow, it is found to have taken the Fifth Council (Mandalay) version as its source.
            >> > >
            >> > > 6. Instead of reproducing the Sixth Council version (which many scholars outside Myanmar are not too happy about), they decided to produce a new version. To do this, the project took a few years and a lot of human and computer power. Among the scholars was a nun who had learnt many ancient writings to lead the transcription work. With her help, they were able to make comparison among more than ten different ancient scripts of the Pali scriptures.
            >> > >
            >> > > 7. The texts went through repeated visual *and* verbal proofreading. So, it should have minimal typographic errors.
            >> > >
            >> > > 8. The Pali Tipitaka Project has ended. As I was told, they have printed 1000 sets for free distribution and have recently launched it. If I remember correctly, they have included all the commentaries as well.
            >> > >
            >> > > Please don't ask me where to get them. We managed the contact the man (whose mother's wish started all this), and he only said he'll keep us informed. That was a few weeks ago. No news since then.
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > > peace
            >> > >
            >> > > Kumâra Bhikkhu
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            >> > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
            >> > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            >> > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            >> > > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
            >> > > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
            >> > >
            >> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> >
            >> > --
            >> > _______________________________________________
            >> > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
            >> > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
            >> >
            >> > Meet Singles
            >> > http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            >> > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
            >> > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            >> > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            >> > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
            >> > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
            >> >
            >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >> >
            >> >
            >>
            >> --
            >> _______________________________________________
            >> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
            >> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
            >>
            >> Meet Singles
            >> http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
            >>
            >>
            >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            >> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
            >> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            >> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            >> [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
            >> [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
            >>
            >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >>
            >>
            >
            >--
            >_______________________________________________
            >Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
            >http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
            >
            >Meet Singles
            >http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
            >
            >
            >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            >Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
            >[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            >[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            >[Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
            >[Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
            >
            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Kumaara Bhikkhu
            ... Compared to the differences between the Agamas and the Nikayas, the variant readings among the various Pali scripts are relatively minor. Among the
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 6, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              At 12:28 AM 06-01-03, you wrote:
              >1. How do the different copies of the Pali Tipitaka (Thai, Sinhala,
              >Burmese) differ? I have a good idea of the difference between the
              >Chinese Agama and the Pali Nikaya, but I am not clear about the
              >distinctions of the variants of the Nikayas in Thai, Sinhala and
              >Burmese (scripts).

              Compared to the differences between the Agamas and the Nikayas, the variant readings among the various Pali scripts are relatively minor. Among the Nikayas, we find variants by small chunks only.

              If you have the CSCD, or most PTS Pali texts, you can find the variant readings as footnotes. (For CSCD, click on [F] when you see a sign something like two connected "S"s with two following digits.)

              More often than not, they are extremely minor and do not change the meaning, such as "pathavi" as preferred in the CSCD, compared to "pa.thavi" given as a variant reading as in the Siihala, Syaama (Thai), Kamboja, and PTS version, shown as footnote in the CSCD. [Majjhimanikaayo > Muulapa.n.naasapaa.li > 1. Muulapariyaayavaggo > 1. Muulapariyaayasutta.m (which is the first sutta of MN)]

              The Burmese seems to have adopted "pathavi" throughout the Pali scripture for consistency sake. The other versions have both "pathavi" and "pathavi" in different places.

              I can't think of any place whereby the reading differs so much that the meanings seriously differs as well. Perhaps someone can point out one (if any).


              >2. The CSCD claims to contain the 6th council version, but is the
              >5th. What are the differences between the two versions?

              I'm not saying that the CSCD contains the 5th council version. What I said was that Thai university researchers say that it seems to take that version as its source.

              Anyhow, as I understand, some editing has been done in the sixth, such as
              to correct grammatical errors (which can be controversial as scholars do disagree on certain grammar points).
              to make similar words/phrase/suttas consistent (such as Karaniiyametta Sutta, which occurs in Suttanipaatapaa.li and Khuddakapaa.thapaa.li. FYI, there are a few very minor discrepancies between them within the CSCD itself. I would expect the Sixth Council editors to be able to weed out such obvious discrepancies in such a well-known sutta.)
              to correct misspellings, etc.


              >3. Which council versions do the following available tipitaka come
              >from:
              > (a) PTS Pali Tipitaka,

              It is a result of comparison among various versions (but obviously not the CS which has yet to happen then), and, where it differs, make decisions as to which they think should be the case. Sometimes, they have a new reading of their own.

              They are not always correct though. There's a big boo-boo in an earlier PTS Udana (ed. Steintal), where a sutta (I.5) clearly suggests that the Buddha said "aayasmaa Devadatto" was among the "braahmanaa", which he later qualify as "Those who, having ousted evil states, fare mindful at all times..." (tr. Masefield). That means "arahants", which Ven. Devadatta could not have been one. Masefield in his endnote express his surprise that "Neither Woodward nor Ireland seems to have noticed this rather obvious point."

              Fortunately, later PTS translators (such as Norman and Masefield) do not stick to the PTS Pali texts, but refer to various versions at hand. It is quite common for them to differ with the early PTS Pali text editors in choice of readings.


              > (b) Budsir: http://www.budsir.org

              I can't remember for sure, but I think it's based on the Chulalongkorn edition. (There's another Thai edition called the Mahamakut. I think it goes by the two prime universities in Thailand. Does anyone have any idea which version is referred to as the Syaama edition in the CS?) I've no idea which council it is based upon.

              However, based upon studies ancient scripts, Norman thinks that the Tipitaka may not have reached the Thais through the Burmese, but through a different route.

              > (c) SLTP Buddha Jayanti Tipitaka:
              >http://www.gold.ac.uk/history/ibric.htm

              I'm not sure which council/edition it is based upon but expect it to lean closer to the Siihala edition.

              As I was given the impression, this impetus for version is a dissatisfaction for the CS version. The Burmese scholar monks outnumbered the foreign ones at the council and did not pay enough attention to their views. That I think was very unfortunate indeed for the Sasana.


              Even if we're happy with the CSCD (which is truly a magnificent production), it's good to have another (or more) source just in case you need to compare.

              For example, in the CSCD's A"nguttaranikaayo > Dasakanipaatapaa.li > Jaa.nusso.nivaggo > Jaa.nusso.nisutta.m, we find this:

              “Idha pana, braahma.na, ekacco paa.naatipaataa pa.tivirato hoti ...pe... sammaadi.t.thiko hoti. So kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa devaana.m sahabyata.m upapajjati. Yo devaana.m aahaaro, tena so tattha yaapeti, tena so tattha ti.t.thati. Idampi, braahma.na, a.t.thaana.m yattha.thitassa ta.m daana.m upakappati.

              A "na" is missing before the last word. It should be
              ... ta.m daana.m na upakappati.

              You should find the same in other versions. Yet, the CSCD version did not even have a footnote of variant reading. This is obviously a typographic error.


              Sorry for not being able to give a more complete answer than the above, Yong Peng. I hope others in the group could throw more light, and correct me if I'm wrong.

              peace

              Kumâra Bhikkhu
            • Ong Teng Kee
              All these should be answered by Aggacitta if his is a real scholar.Take your computer to penang burmese temple to check their complete sixth council text .You
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 6, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                All these should be answered by Aggacitta if his is a real scholar.Take your computer to penang burmese temple to check their complete sixth council text .You have to know that sixth council books are not a team work but individual work like their dict and tran on tipitaka.There should not be a complain about vri making mistakes because they are doing a favor for people who cannot spend 20 usd on each volume. Look at mahasi and nyanuttara who even overlook buudhaghosa did not recommed sukkhavipassaka for everyone but reject it.(a fact that sujato did not know)

                Pre sixth council vol for the books are not the same -AN tika is in two vol instaed of three,Vajirabuddhi is one instaed of two.The word are more compound-like as Supapha na bangchang said in his majjhima tika intro about old and new burmese majjhima tika.See vol of pre sixth council in Penang mahindrama temple.

                --- Original Message -----
                From: Kumaara Bhikkhu <venkumara@...>
                Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 10:16:42 +0800
                To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project

                > At 07:13 PM 05-01-03, Ong Teng Kee wrote:
                > >I found out last night that VRI cdrom is correct in Myanmar script but not in Roman which could be the software conversion is faulty.They type in myanmar script follow the book from sixth council.
                > >I compare a abhidhamma tika in Thuddhamma series (pre sixth council)but it is not the same with the cdrom which prove that your saying is wrong.
                >
                > You might be right.
                >
                > Can you share a few things:
                > 1. Are you referring to the Myanmar or the Roman script?
                > 2. How about other books? Did you find the same?
                > 3. Can you give us a short example? With that, we may get to see how the machine conversion could have gone wrong. I can read Myanmar scripts --- though at a crawling speed.
                >
                >
                > >Most of those pre sicth council books are without heavier ink for commented word-xxxxx ti,so they cannot type those in the cdrom without new sixth council books.
                >
                > You've got a point there.
                >
                > I thinking: Can't the VRI people bold them themselves?
                >
                >
                > >Also pre sixth council books have reading connected a lot compare to the new one.
                >
                > Sorry, can you come again?
                >
                > I still trust Sayadaw U Silananda's words on the issue that VRI's CSCD does not contain the CS version. He *was* among the editors of the council. I don't see him as one who makes rash statements.
                >
                > kb
                >
                > >----- Original Message -----
                > >From: "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@...>
                > >Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 07:04:13 -0500
                > >To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                > >Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
                > >
                > >> I like to add that the nun is Supaphan Na Bangchang if I am not wrong.She is a student of Lily De silva .She did edit majjhima tika mulapariyaya vagga with almost all sinhala readings on the main line.
                > >> As I have to repeat -We do not need any more new tipitaka only or with the same com and tika printed edition but we do need those lost tika like linatthadipani on patisambhida by vacisara,netti ganthi etc where it can help us to understand about misunderstood topic in sukkavipasaka etc.
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> --- Original Message -----
                > >> From: "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@...>
                > >> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 06:49:48 -0500
                > >> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                > >> Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
                > >>
                > >> > I have seen it from one of my friends.It is just a all thai readings in the main reading which is not the way to edit pali text.No Lanna thai was put in the main line.They did not edit tika like samyutta tika which no edition other than from myanmar.we must abandon those readings in the leaves even it is from our own country manuscripts.
                > >> >
                > >> > I have many non sixth council printed texts from myanmar which I found the readings are not the same with the cdrom.
                > >> >
                > >> > ----- Original Message -----
                > >> > From: Kumaara Bhikkhu <venkumara@...>
                > >> > Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:04:12 +0800
                > >> > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                > >> > Subject: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
                > >> >
                > >> > > Dear all,
                > >> > >
                > >> > > I was informed by Ven. Sujato (an Australian monk, who conducted a retreat here) of a new Pali Tipitaka project undertaken by a university (MahaCulalonkorn?) in Thailand. Here's some background information about it:
                > >> > >
                > >> > > 1. It all started when the mother of one of the people in the project went to Rangoon (now Yangon) to observe the proceedings of the Sixth Council. She was so inspired by it that, before she died, she asked that her son print the Tipitaka for free distribution.
                > >> > >
                > >> > > 2. When the VRI CSCD come out, the son decided to produce a print version of it, thereby fulfilling his mother's dying wish.
                > >> > >
                > >> > > 3. However, as he went over the texts, he found errors. The more he checked the more errors he found.
                > >> > >
                > >> > > 4. This led to a big project under the auspices of a Thai university.
                > >> > >
                > >> > > 5. From the research, they found out that:
                > >> > > There are more than 30,000 discrepancies found in the VRI version.
                > >> > > The VRI CSCD does not contain the Sixth Council version. (Sayadaw U Silananda was right.)
                > >> > > Somehow, it is found to have taken the Fifth Council (Mandalay) version as its source.
                > >> > >
                > >> > > 6. Instead of reproducing the Sixth Council version (which many scholars outside Myanmar are not too happy about), they decided to produce a new version. To do this, the project took a few years and a lot of human and computer power. Among the scholars was a nun who had learnt many ancient writings to lead the transcription work. With her help, they were able to make comparison among more than ten different ancient scripts of the Pali scriptures.
                > >> > >
                > >> > > 7. The texts went through repeated visual *and* verbal proofreading. So, it should have minimal typographic errors.
                > >> > >
                > >> > > 8. The Pali Tipitaka Project has ended. As I was told, they have printed 1000 sets for free distribution and have recently launched it. If I remember correctly, they have included all the commentaries as well.
                > >> > >
                > >> > > Please don't ask me where to get them. We managed the contact the man (whose mother's wish started all this), and he only said he'll keep us informed. That was a few weeks ago. No news since then.
                > >> > >
                > >> > >
                > >> > > peace
                > >> > >
                > >> > > Kumâra Bhikkhu
                > >> > >
                > >> > >
                > >> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                > >> > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                > >> > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                > >> > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                > >> > > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                > >> > > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                > >> > >
                > >> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >> > >
                > >> > >
                > >> >
                > >> > --
                > >> > _______________________________________________
                > >> > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                > >> > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
                > >> >
                > >> > Meet Singles
                > >> > http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                > >> > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                > >> > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                > >> > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                > >> > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                > >> > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                > >> >
                > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >>
                > >> --
                > >> _______________________________________________
                > >> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                > >> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
                > >>
                > >> Meet Singles
                > >> http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                > >> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                > >> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                > >> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                > >> [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                > >> [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                > >>
                > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >--
                > >_______________________________________________
                > >Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                > >http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
                > >
                > >Meet Singles
                > >http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
                > >
                > >
                > >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                > >Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                > >[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                > >[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                > >[Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                > >[Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                > >
                > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >

                --
                _______________________________________________
                Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

                Meet Singles
                http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
              • rjkjp1 <rjkjp1@yahoo.com>
                ... recommed sukkhavipassaka for everyone but reject it.(a fact that sujato did not know) ... _____________ Dear teng kee, I looked over the book by Nyanuttara
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 6, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@e...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Look at mahasi and nyanuttara who even overlook buudhaghosa did not
                  recommed sukkhavipassaka for everyone but reject it.(a fact that
                  sujato did not know)
                  >
                  _____________
                  Dear teng kee,
                  I looked over the book by Nyanuttara many years back so can't
                  remember details, I think I disagreed with some points. But I don't
                  remember them claiming that sukkhavipassaka was for everyone: rather
                  that at this time, late in the sasana, that those who attain will do
                  so by sukkhavipassaka. We can see this indicated by some commentaries
                  where they say that the arahants with 4 discrimnations will be
                  present for a shorter period (a thousand years according to some)
                  than the sukkhavipassaka arahants.

                  ___________
                  "Mahasi said so many time sukkavipasaka is an easier way
                  for everyone.We are overlooking the fact if we didn't check the books"
                  _________
                  It wasn't exactly hard for those like Bahiya or Sariputta - if we
                  look at their last life only- who were not sukkhavipassaka . But
                  considering their countless past lives perfecting the parami needed
                  to be such great ones...
                  I think it is harder to become 'released both ways' than
                  sukkhavipassaka in the sense that it takes more parami developed over
                  more lifetimes to become released both ways.
                  RobertK
                • Ong Teng Kee
                  -Dear Kumara, When I said you can get complete set of sixth council book ,I do not mean you can get all publication from this buddhasasana samiti sixth council
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 7, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    -Dear Kumara,
                    When I said you can get complete set of sixth council book ,I do not mean you can get all publication from this buddhasasana samiti sixth council because this foundation are too young (50 years)compare to Publisher like hanthawaday and tudhammavadi (100 years)etc.Buddhasasana samiti has no time to redo all their 3000 books-1500 in pali like madhutika,manidipa and grammar like nyasa.1000 for tran like nissaya on com etc.Also lost tika .Buddhasana samiti has only about 250 with a bit tran on them.
                    mahindrama has 25 vol of thumavadi in their library
                    which are very old and dirty.

                    ---- Original Message -----
                    From: "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@...>
                    Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 06:50:45 -0500
                    To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project

                    >
                    > All these should be answered by Aggacitta if his is a real scholar.Take your computer to penang burmese temple to check their complete sixth council text .You have to know that sixth council books are not a team work but individual work like their dict and tran on tipitaka.There should not be a complain about vri making mistakes because they are doing a favor for people who cannot spend 20 usd on each volume. Look at mahasi and nyanuttara who even overlook buudhaghosa did not recommed sukkhavipassaka for everyone but reject it.(a fact that sujato did not know)
                    >
                    > Pre sixth council vol for the books are not the same -AN tika is in two vol instaed of three,Vajirabuddhi is one instaed of two.The word are more compound-like as Supapha na bangchang said in his majjhima tika intro about old and new burmese majjhima tika.See vol of pre sixth council in Penang mahindrama temple.
                    >
                    > --- Original Message -----
                    > From: Kumaara Bhikkhu <venkumara@...>
                    > Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 10:16:42 +0800
                    > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
                    >
                    > > At 07:13 PM 05-01-03, Ong Teng Kee wrote:
                    > > >I found out last night that VRI cdrom is correct in Myanmar script but not in Roman which could be the software conversion is faulty.They type in myanmar script follow the book from sixth council.
                    > > >I compare a abhidhamma tika in Thuddhamma series (pre sixth council)but it is not the same with the cdrom which prove that your saying is wrong.
                    > >
                    > > You might be right.
                    > >
                    > > Can you share a few things:
                    > > 1. Are you referring to the Myanmar or the Roman script?
                    > > 2. How about other books? Did you find the same?
                    > > 3. Can you give us a short example? With that, we may get to see how the machine conversion could have gone wrong. I can read Myanmar scripts --- though at a crawling speed.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >Most of those pre sicth council books are without heavier ink for commented word-xxxxx ti,so they cannot type those in the cdrom without new sixth council books.
                    > >
                    > > You've got a point there.
                    > >
                    > > I thinking: Can't the VRI people bold them themselves?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >Also pre sixth council books have reading connected a lot compare to the new one.
                    > >
                    > > Sorry, can you come again?
                    > >
                    > > I still trust Sayadaw U Silananda's words on the issue that VRI's CSCD does not contain the CS version. He *was* among the editors of the council. I don't see him as one who makes rash statements.
                    > >
                    > > kb
                    > >
                    > > >----- Original Message -----
                    > > >From: "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@...>
                    > > >Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 07:04:13 -0500
                    > > >To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
                    > > >
                    > > >> I like to add that the nun is Supaphan Na Bangchang if I am not wrong.She is a student of Lily De silva .She did edit majjhima tika mulapariyaya vagga with almost all sinhala readings on the main line.
                    > > >> As I have to repeat -We do not need any more new tipitaka only or with the same com and tika printed edition but we do need those lost tika like linatthadipani on patisambhida by vacisara,netti ganthi etc where it can help us to understand about misunderstood topic in sukkavipasaka etc.
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >> --- Original Message -----
                    > > >> From: "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@...>
                    > > >> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 06:49:48 -0500
                    > > >> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >> Subject: Re: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
                    > > >>
                    > > >> > I have seen it from one of my friends.It is just a all thai readings in the main reading which is not the way to edit pali text.No Lanna thai was put in the main line.They did not edit tika like samyutta tika which no edition other than from myanmar.we must abandon those readings in the leaves even it is from our own country manuscripts.
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > I have many non sixth council printed texts from myanmar which I found the readings are not the same with the cdrom.
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > >> > From: Kumaara Bhikkhu <venkumara@...>
                    > > >> > Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:04:12 +0800
                    > > >> > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >> > Subject: [Pali] New Pali Tipitaka Project
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > > Dear all,
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > I was informed by Ven. Sujato (an Australian monk, who conducted a retreat here) of a new Pali Tipitaka project undertaken by a university (MahaCulalonkorn?) in Thailand. Here's some background information about it:
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > 1. It all started when the mother of one of the people in the project went to Rangoon (now Yangon) to observe the proceedings of the Sixth Council. She was so inspired by it that, before she died, she asked that her son print the Tipitaka for free distribution.
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > 2. When the VRI CSCD come out, the son decided to produce a print version of it, thereby fulfilling his mother's dying wish.
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > 3. However, as he went over the texts, he found errors. The more he checked the more errors he found.
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > 4. This led to a big project under the auspices of a Thai university.
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > 5. From the research, they found out that:
                    > > >> > > There are more than 30,000 discrepancies found in the VRI version.
                    > > >> > > The VRI CSCD does not contain the Sixth Council version. (Sayadaw U Silananda was right.)
                    > > >> > > Somehow, it is found to have taken the Fifth Council (Mandalay) version as its source.
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > 6. Instead of reproducing the Sixth Council version (which many scholars outside Myanmar are not too happy about), they decided to produce a new version. To do this, the project took a few years and a lot of human and computer power. Among the scholars was a nun who had learnt many ancient writings to lead the transcription work. With her help, they were able to make comparison among more than ten different ancient scripts of the Pali scriptures.
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > 7. The texts went through repeated visual *and* verbal proofreading. So, it should have minimal typographic errors.
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > 8. The Pali Tipitaka Project has ended. As I was told, they have printed 1000 sets for free distribution and have recently launched it. If I remember correctly, they have included all the commentaries as well.
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > Please don't ask me where to get them. We managed the contact the man (whose mother's wish started all this), and he only said he'll keep us informed. That was a few weeks ago. No news since then.
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > peace
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > Kumâra Bhikkhu
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    > > >> > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                    > > >> > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    > > >> > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >> > > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                    > > >> > > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> > >
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > --
                    > > >> > _______________________________________________
                    > > >> > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                    > > >> > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > Meet Singles
                    > > >> > http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    > > >> > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                    > > >> > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    > > >> > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >> > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                    > > >> > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> >
                    > > >>
                    > > >> --
                    > > >> _______________________________________________
                    > > >> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                    > > >> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Meet Singles
                    > > >> http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    > > >> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                    > > >> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    > > >> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >> [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                    > > >> [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >--
                    > > >_______________________________________________
                    > > >Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                    > > >http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
                    > > >
                    > > >Meet Singles
                    > > >http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    > > >Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                    > > >[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    > > >[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >[Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                    > > >[Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                    > > >
                    > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                    > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                    > > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > --
                    > _______________________________________________
                    > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                    > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
                    >
                    > Meet Singles
                    > http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
                    >
                    >
                    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                    > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                    > [Discussion] http://tipitaka.suddenlaunch.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    _______________________________________________
                    Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                    http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

                    Meet Singles
                    http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
                  • Ong Teng Kee
                    There are too many in maha tika mula tika etc where the readings have completely meaning in thai and burmese.Just look at mahatika in BUDSIR version from
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 7, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      There are too many in maha tika mula tika etc where the readings have completely meaning in thai and burmese.Just look at mahatika in BUDSIR version from mahamakut.The budsir has mahamakut tipitaka .jataka com,mahatika,vinaya com,sarathadipani etc but the rest of the com are chula series.Sixth council only used mahamakut because chula are new version after 1960.






                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Kumaara Bhikkhu <venkumara@...>
                      Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 19:33:23 +0800
                      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Variant readings, CS version, various Tipitakas (Re: [Pali] Re: New Pali Tipitaka Project)

                      > At 12:28 AM 06-01-03, you wrote:
                      > >1. How do the different copies of the Pali Tipitaka (Thai, Sinhala,
                      > >Burmese) differ? I have a good idea of the difference between the
                      > >Chinese Agama and the Pali Nikaya, but I am not clear about the
                      > >distinctions of the variants of the Nikayas in Thai, Sinhala and
                      > >Burmese (scripts).
                      >
                      > Compared to the differences between the Agamas and the Nikayas, the variant readings among the various Pali scripts are relatively minor. Among the Nikayas, we find variants by small chunks only.
                      >
                      > If you have the CSCD, or most PTS Pali texts, you can find the variant readings as footnotes. (For CSCD, click on [F] when you see a sign something like two connected "S"s with two following digits.)
                      >
                      > More often than not, they are extremely minor and do not change the meaning, such as "pathavi" as preferred in the CSCD, compared to "pa.thavi" given as a variant reading as in the Siihala, Syaama (Thai), Kamboja, and PTS version, shown as footnote in the CSCD. [Majjhimanikaayo > Muulapa.n.naasapaa.li > 1. Muulapariyaayavaggo > 1. Muulapariyaayasutta.m (which is the first sutta of MN)]
                      >
                      > The Burmese seems to have adopted "pathavi" throughout the Pali scripture for consistency sake. The other versions have both "pathavi" and "pathavi" in different places.
                      >
                      > I can't think of any place whereby the reading differs so much that the meanings seriously differs as well. Perhaps someone can point out one (if any).
                      >
                      >
                      > >2. The CSCD claims to contain the 6th council version, but is the
                      > >5th. What are the differences between the two versions?
                      >
                      > I'm not saying that the CSCD contains the 5th council version. What I said was that Thai university researchers say that it seems to take that version as its source.
                      >
                      > Anyhow, as I understand, some editing has been done in the sixth, such as
                      > to correct grammatical errors (which can be controversial as scholars do disagree on certain grammar points).
                      > to make similar words/phrase/suttas consistent (such as Karaniiyametta Sutta, which occurs in Suttanipaatapaa.li and Khuddakapaa.thapaa.li. FYI, there are a few very minor discrepancies between them within the CSCD itself. I would expect the Sixth Council editors to be able to weed out such obvious discrepancies in such a well-known sutta.)
                      > to correct misspellings, etc.
                      >
                      >
                      > >3. Which council versions do the following available tipitaka come
                      > >from:
                      > > (a) PTS Pali Tipitaka,
                      >
                      > It is a result of comparison among various versions (but obviously not the CS which has yet to happen then), and, where it differs, make decisions as to which they think should be the case. Sometimes, they have a new reading of their own.
                      >
                      > They are not always correct though. There's a big boo-boo in an earlier PTS Udana (ed. Steintal), where a sutta (I.5) clearly suggests that the Buddha said "aayasmaa Devadatto" was among the "braahmanaa", which he later qualify as "Those who, having ousted evil states, fare mindful at all times..." (tr. Masefield). That means "arahants", which Ven. Devadatta could not have been one. Masefield in his endnote express his surprise that "Neither Woodward nor Ireland seems to have noticed this rather obvious point."
                      >
                      > Fortunately, later PTS translators (such as Norman and Masefield) do not stick to the PTS Pali texts, but refer to various versions at hand. It is quite common for them to differ with the early PTS Pali text editors in choice of readings.
                      >
                      >
                      > > (b) Budsir: http://www.budsir.org
                      >
                      > I can't remember for sure, but I think it's based on the Chulalongkorn edition. (There's another Thai edition called the Mahamakut. I think it goes by the two prime universities in Thailand. Does anyone have any idea which version is referred to as the Syaama edition in the CS?) I've no idea which council it is based upon.
                      >
                      > However, based upon studies ancient scripts, Norman thinks that the Tipitaka may not have reached the Thais through the Burmese, but through a different route.
                      >
                      > > (c) SLTP Buddha Jayanti Tipitaka:
                      > >http://www.gold.ac.uk/history/ibric.htm
                      >
                      > I'm not sure which council/edition it is based upon but expect it to lean closer to the Siihala edition.
                      >
                      > As I was given the impression, this impetus for version is a dissatisfaction for the CS version. The Burmese scholar monks outnumbered the foreign ones at the council and did not pay enough attention to their views. That I think was very unfortunate indeed for the Sasana.
                      >
                      >
                      > Even if we're happy with the CSCD (which is truly a magnificent production), it's good to have another (or more) source just in case you need to compare.
                      >
                      > For example, in the CSCD's A"nguttaranikaayo > Dasakanipaatapaa.li > Jaa.nusso.nivaggo > Jaa.nusso.nisutta.m, we find this:
                      >
                      > “Idha pana, braahma.na, ekacco paa.naatipaataa pa.tivirato hoti ...pe... sammaadi.t.thiko hoti. So kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa devaana.m sahabyata.m upapajjati. Yo devaana.m aahaaro, tena so tattha yaapeti, tena so tattha ti.t.thati. Idampi, braahma.na, a.t.thaana.m yattha.thitassa ta.m daana.m upakappati.
                      >
                      > A "na" is missing before the last word. It should be
                      > ... ta.m daana.m na upakappati.
                      >
                      > You should find the same in other versions. Yet, the CSCD version did not even have a footnote of variant reading. This is obviously a typographic error.
                      >
                      >
                      > Sorry for not being able to give a more complete answer than the above, Yong Peng. I hope others in the group could throw more light, and correct me if I'm wrong.
                      >
                      > peace
                      >
                      > Kumâra Bhikkhu
                      >
                      >
                      > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                      > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                      > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                      > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                      > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                      > [Discussion] http://tipitaka.suddenlaunch.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      _______________________________________________
                      Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                      http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

                      Meet Singles
                      http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
                    • abhidhammika <suanluzaw@bodhiology.org>
                      Dear Venerable Kumaara Bhikkhu How are you? Happy New Year! You wrote: For example, in the CSCD s A nguttaranikaayo Dasakanipaatapaa.li Jaa.nusso.nivaggo
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 7, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Venerable Kumaara Bhikkhu

                        How are you? Happy New Year!

                        You wrote:

                        "For example, in the CSCD's A"nguttaranikaayo > Dasakanipaatapaa.li >
                        Jaa.nusso.nivaggo > Jaa.nusso.nisutta.m, we find this:

                        "Idha pana, braahma.na, ekacco paa.naatipaataa pa.tivirato
                        hoti ...pe...
                        sammaadi.t.thiko hoti. So kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa devaana.m
                        sahabyata.m
                        upapajjati. Yo devaana.m aahaaro, tena so tattha yaapeti, tena so
                        tattha
                        ti.t.thati. Idampi, braahma.na, a.t.thaana.m yattha.thitassa ta.m
                        daana.m
                        upakappati.

                        A "na" is missing before the last word. It should be
                        ... ta.m daana.m na upakappati.

                        You should find the same in other versions. Yet, the CSCD version did
                        not even have a footnote of variant reading. This is obviously a
                        typographic error."

                        Thank you for pointing out the missing "na" in the above paragraph in
                        the CSCD.

                        As you noted, it is merely the typing error of the compilers of the
                        VRI CSCD.

                        It is nothing to do with Cha.t.tha Sangayana Edition oF Pali
                        Tipi.taka published in Myanmar.

                        I think you should write to Vippasana Research Institute with your
                        findings of such errors so that the future editions of CSCD do not
                        contain them.


                        With five-fold touch bow,

                        Suan Lu Zaw

                        http://www.bodhiology.org











                        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumaara Bhikkhu <venkumara@p...> wrote:



                        > At 12:28 AM 06-01-03, you wrote:
                        > >1. How do the different copies of the Pali Tipitaka (Thai,
                        Sinhala,
                        > >Burmese) differ? I have a good idea of the difference between the
                        > >Chinese Agama and the Pali Nikaya, but I am not clear about the
                        > >distinctions of the variants of the Nikayas in Thai, Sinhala and
                        > >Burmese (scripts).
                        >
                        > Compared to the differences between the Agamas and the Nikayas, the
                        variant readings among the various Pali scripts are relatively minor.
                        Among the Nikayas, we find variants by small chunks only.
                        >
                        > If you have the CSCD, or most PTS Pali texts, you can find the
                        variant readings as footnotes. (For CSCD, click on [F] when you see a
                        sign something like two connected "S"s with two following digits.)
                        >
                        > More often than not, they are extremely minor and do not change the
                        meaning, such as "pathavi" as preferred in the CSCD, compared
                        to "pa.thavi" given as a variant reading as in the Siihala, Syaama
                        (Thai), Kamboja, and PTS version, shown as footnote in the CSCD.
                        [Majjhimanikaayo > Muulapa.n.naasapaa.li > 1. Muulapariyaayavaggo >
                        1. Muulapariyaayasutta.m (which is the first sutta of MN)]
                        >
                        > The Burmese seems to have adopted "pathavi" throughout the Pali
                        scripture for consistency sake. The other versions have
                        both "pathavi" and "pathavi" in different places.
                        >
                        > I can't think of any place whereby the reading differs so much that
                        the meanings seriously differs as well. Perhaps someone can point out
                        one (if any).
                        >
                        >
                        > >2. The CSCD claims to contain the 6th council version, but is the
                        > >5th. What are the differences between the two versions?
                        >
                        > I'm not saying that the CSCD contains the 5th council version. What
                        I said was that Thai university researchers say that it seems to take
                        that version as its source.
                        >
                        > Anyhow, as I understand, some editing has been done in the sixth,
                        such as
                        > to correct grammatical errors (which can be controversial
                        as scholars do disagree on certain grammar points).
                        > to make similar words/phrase/suttas consistent (such as
                        Karaniiyametta Sutta, which occurs in Suttanipaatapaa.li and
                        Khuddakapaa.thapaa.li. FYI, there are a few very minor discrepancies
                        between them within the CSCD itself. I would expect the Sixth Council
                        editors to be able to weed out such obvious discrepancies in such a
                        well-known sutta.)
                        > to correct misspellings, etc.
                        >
                        >
                        > >3. Which council versions do the following available tipitaka come
                        > >from:
                        > > (a) PTS Pali Tipitaka,
                        >
                        > It is a result of comparison among various versions (but obviously
                        not the CS which has yet to happen then), and, where it differs, make
                        decisions as to which they think should be the case. Sometimes, they
                        have a new reading of their own.
                        >
                        > They are not always correct though. There's a big boo-boo in an
                        earlier PTS Udana (ed. Steintal), where a sutta (I.5) clearly
                        suggests that the Buddha said "aayasmaa Devadatto" was among
                        the "braahmanaa", which he later qualify as "Those who, having ousted
                        evil states, fare mindful at all times..." (tr. Masefield). That
                        means "arahants", which Ven. Devadatta could not have been one.
                        Masefield in his endnote express his surprise that "Neither Woodward
                        nor Ireland seems to have noticed this rather obvious point."
                        >
                        > Fortunately, later PTS translators (such as Norman and Masefield)
                        do not stick to the PTS Pali texts, but refer to various versions at
                        hand. It is quite common for them to differ with the early PTS Pali
                        text editors in choice of readings.
                        >
                        >
                        > > (b) Budsir: http://www.budsir.org
                        >
                        > I can't remember for sure, but I think it's based on the
                        Chulalongkorn edition. (There's another Thai edition called the
                        Mahamakut. I think it goes by the two prime universities in Thailand.
                        Does anyone have any idea which version is referred to as the Syaama
                        edition in the CS?) I've no idea which council it is based upon.
                        >
                        > However, based upon studies ancient scripts, Norman thinks that the
                        Tipitaka may not have reached the Thais through the Burmese, but
                        through a different route.
                        >
                        > > (c) SLTP Buddha Jayanti Tipitaka:
                        > >http://www.gold.ac.uk/history/ibric.htm
                        >
                        > I'm not sure which council/edition it is based upon but expect it
                        to lean closer to the Siihala edition.
                        >
                        > As I was given the impression, this impetus for version is a
                        dissatisfaction for the CS version. The Burmese scholar monks
                        outnumbered the foreign ones at the council and did not pay enough
                        attention to their views. That I think was very unfortunate indeed
                        for the Sasana.
                        >
                        >
                        > Even if we're happy with the CSCD (which is truly a magnificent
                        production), it's good to have another (or more) source just in case
                        you need to compare.
                        >
                        > For example, in the CSCD's A"nguttaranikaayo > Dasakanipaatapaa.li
                        > Jaa.nusso.nivaggo > Jaa.nusso.nisutta.m, we find this:
                        >
                        > "Idha pana, braahma.na, ekacco paa.naatipaataa pa.tivirato
                        hoti ...pe... sammaadi.t.thiko hoti. So kaayassa bhedaa para.m
                        mara.naa devaana.m sahabyata.m upapajjati. Yo devaana.m aahaaro, tena
                        so tattha yaapeti, tena so tattha ti.t.thati. Idampi, braahma.na,
                        a.t.thaana.m yattha.thitassa ta.m daana.m upakappati.
                        >
                        > A "na" is missing before the last word. It should be
                        > ... ta.m daana.m na upakappati.
                        >
                        > You should find the same in other versions. Yet, the CSCD version
                        did not even have a footnote of variant reading. This is obviously a
                        typographic error.
                        >
                        >
                        > Sorry for not being able to give a more complete answer than the
                        above, Yong Peng. I hope others in the group could throw more light,
                        and correct me if I'm wrong.
                        >
                        > peace
                        >
                        > Kumâra Bhikkhu
                      • Kumaara Bhikkhu
                        ... I ve done that, avuso. There has been at least six such emails to them. Something such as the CSCD is invaluable to the Buddhism world and so is worth
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 7, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          At 09:43 PM 07-01-03, abhidhammika <suanluzaw@...> wrote:
                          >I think you should write to Vippasana Research Institute with your
                          >findings of such errors so that the future editions of CSCD do not
                          >contain them.

                          I've done that, avuso. There has been at least six such emails to them. Something such as the CSCD is invaluable to the Buddhism world and so is worth making perfect.

                          However, they rarely ever respond. At one time that they did, the sender mentioned about having received many feedback of errors from others too. He said they were questioning source of their texts.

                          peace

                          Kumâra Bhikkhu
                        • Ong Teng Kee
                          I just like to add that chula do produce their own 90 vol of cdrom tipitaka only/translation in thai script only by Pra dhammapitaka.They did print all sixth
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 8, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I just like to add that chula do produce their own 90 vol of cdrom tipitaka only/translation in thai script only by Pra dhammapitaka.They did print all sixth council tika in thai script because no scholars in thai like to edit the texts.
                            In sutta mala (saddniti vol 3)sutta 1319,1311 two pathavi are correct and kaccayana sutta 668 (in its tika)too.
                            In later attayojana like those by shan monk -nanakitti and grammar tika explain a lot about which words they think I correct.Should it be cha or jha etc.
                            We still have no idea why lanna thai reading are longer/unusual in verse and prose.See their dhammapada by PTS.see bodhi refuse to tran them in his sagathavagga verse because he didn't find com on it.Only deva living aroud there for a long time be able to tell where they get the leaves.
                            The most important thing about pali eng etc translation is we have to use any theravadin countries nisaya.Bodhi should at least look at 3 burmese nisaya in books or leaves if not thai and sri lanka.


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@...>
                            Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 06:27:32 -0500
                            To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: Variant readings, CS version, various Tipitakas (Re: [Pali] Re: New Pali Tipitaka Project)

                            > There are too many in maha tika mula tika etc where the readings have completely meaning in thai and burmese.Just look at mahatika in BUDSIR version from mahamakut.The budsir has mahamakut tipitaka .jataka com,mahatika,vinaya com,sarathadipani etc but the rest of the com are chula series.Sixth council only used mahamakut because chula are new version after 1960.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Kumaara Bhikkhu <venkumara@...>
                            > Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 19:33:23 +0800
                            > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Variant readings, CS version, various Tipitakas (Re: [Pali] Re: New Pali Tipitaka Project)
                            >
                            > > At 12:28 AM 06-01-03, you wrote:
                            > > >1. How do the different copies of the Pali Tipitaka (Thai, Sinhala,
                            > > >Burmese) differ? I have a good idea of the difference between the
                            > > >Chinese Agama and the Pali Nikaya, but I am not clear about the
                            > > >distinctions of the variants of the Nikayas in Thai, Sinhala and
                            > > >Burmese (scripts).
                            > >
                            > > Compared to the differences between the Agamas and the Nikayas, the variant readings among the various Pali scripts are relatively minor. Among the Nikayas, we find variants by small chunks only.
                            > >
                            > > If you have the CSCD, or most PTS Pali texts, you can find the variant readings as footnotes. (For CSCD, click on [F] when you see a sign something like two connected "S"s with two following digits.)
                            > >
                            > > More often than not, they are extremely minor and do not change the meaning, such as "pathavi" as preferred in the CSCD, compared to "pa.thavi" given as a variant reading as in the Siihala, Syaama (Thai), Kamboja, and PTS version, shown as footnote in the CSCD. [Majjhimanikaayo > Muulapa.n.naasapaa.li > 1. Muulapariyaayavaggo > 1. Muulapariyaayasutta.m (which is the first sutta of MN)]
                            > >
                            > > The Burmese seems to have adopted "pathavi" throughout the Pali scripture for consistency sake. The other versions have both "pathavi" and "pathavi" in different places.
                            > >
                            > > I can't think of any place whereby the reading differs so much that the meanings seriously differs as well. Perhaps someone can point out one (if any).
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > >2. The CSCD claims to contain the 6th council version, but is the
                            > > >5th. What are the differences between the two versions?
                            > >
                            > > I'm not saying that the CSCD contains the 5th council version. What I said was that Thai university researchers say that it seems to take that version as its source.
                            > >
                            > > Anyhow, as I understand, some editing has been done in the sixth, such as
                            > > to correct grammatical errors (which can be controversial as scholars do disagree on certain grammar points).
                            > > to make similar words/phrase/suttas consistent (such as Karaniiyametta Sutta, which occurs in Suttanipaatapaa.li and Khuddakapaa.thapaa.li. FYI, there are a few very minor discrepancies between them within the CSCD itself. I would expect the Sixth Council editors to be able to weed out such obvious discrepancies in such a well-known sutta.)
                            > > to correct misspellings, etc.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > >3. Which council versions do the following available tipitaka come
                            > > >from:
                            > > > (a) PTS Pali Tipitaka,
                            > >
                            > > It is a result of comparison among various versions (but obviously not the CS which has yet to happen then), and, where it differs, make decisions as to which they think should be the case. Sometimes, they have a new reading of their own.
                            > >
                            > > They are not always correct though. There's a big boo-boo in an earlier PTS Udana (ed. Steintal), where a sutta (I.5) clearly suggests that the Buddha said "aayasmaa Devadatto" was among the "braahmanaa", which he later qualify as "Those who, having ousted evil states, fare mindful at all times..." (tr. Masefield). That means "arahants", which Ven. Devadatta could not have been one. Masefield in his endnote express his surprise that "Neither Woodward nor Ireland seems to have noticed this rather obvious point."
                            > >
                            > > Fortunately, later PTS translators (such as Norman and Masefield) do not stick to the PTS Pali texts, but refer to various versions at hand. It is quite common for them to differ with the early PTS Pali text editors in choice of readings.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > (b) Budsir: http://www.budsir.org
                            > >
                            > > I can't remember for sure, but I think it's based on the Chulalongkorn edition. (There's another Thai edition called the Mahamakut. I think it goes by the two prime universities in Thailand. Does anyone have any idea which version is referred to as the Syaama edition in the CS?) I've no idea which council it is based upon.
                            > >
                            > > However, based upon studies ancient scripts, Norman thinks that the Tipitaka may not have reached the Thais through the Burmese, but through a different route.
                            > >
                            > > > (c) SLTP Buddha Jayanti Tipitaka:
                            > > >http://www.gold.ac.uk/history/ibric.htm
                            > >
                            > > I'm not sure which council/edition it is based upon but expect it to lean closer to the Siihala edition.
                            > >
                            > > As I was given the impression, this impetus for version is a dissatisfaction for the CS version. The Burmese scholar monks outnumbered the foreign ones at the council and did not pay enough attention to their views. That I think was very unfortunate indeed for the Sasana.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Even if we're happy with the CSCD (which is truly a magnificent production), it's good to have another (or more) source just in case you need to compare.
                            > >
                            > > For example, in the CSCD's A"nguttaranikaayo > Dasakanipaatapaa.li > Jaa.nusso.nivaggo > Jaa.nusso.nisutta.m, we find this:
                            > >
                            > > “Idha pana, braahma.na, ekacco paa.naatipaataa pa.tivirato hoti ...pe... sammaadi.t.thiko hoti. So kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa devaana.m sahabyata.m upapajjati. Yo devaana.m aahaaro, tena so tattha yaapeti, tena so tattha ti.t.thati. Idampi, braahma.na, a.t.thaana.m yattha.thitassa ta.m daana.m upakappati.
                            > >
                            > > A "na" is missing before the last word. It should be
                            > > ... ta.m daana.m na upakappati.
                            > >
                            > > You should find the same in other versions. Yet, the CSCD version did not even have a footnote of variant reading. This is obviously a typographic error.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Sorry for not being able to give a more complete answer than the above, Yong Peng. I hope others in the group could throw more light, and correct me if I'm wrong.
                            > >
                            > > peace
                            > >
                            > > Kumâra Bhikkhu
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                            > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                            > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                            > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                            > > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                            > > [Discussion] http://tipitaka.suddenlaunch.com
                            > >
                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > --
                            > _______________________________________________
                            > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                            > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
                            >
                            > Meet Singles
                            > http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
                            >
                            >
                            > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                            > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                            > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                            > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                            > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                            > [Discussion] http://tipitaka.suddenlaunch.com
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            _______________________________________________
                            Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
                            http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

                            Meet Singles
                            http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
                          • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
                            Dear Ven. Kumara, Teng Kee and Lu Zaw, thanks for all the information. I read them with keen interest as I am a history guy, it is quite a pity that such
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 8, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dear Ven. Kumara, Teng Kee and Lu Zaw,

                              thanks for all the information. I read them with keen interest as I
                              am a 'history' guy, it is quite a pity that such information are not
                              widely available in English.

                              metta,
                              Yong Peng.

                              --- Ong Teng Kee wrote:
                              > I just like to add that chula do produce their own 90 vol of cdrom
                              tipitaka only/translation in thai script only by Pra
                              dhammapitaka.They did print all sixth council tika in thai script
                              because no scholars in thai like to edit the texts.
                              > In sutta mala (saddniti vol 3)sutta 1319,1311 two pathavi are
                              correct and kaccayana sutta 668 (in its tika)too.
                              > In later attayojana like those by shan monk -nanakitti and grammar
                              tika explain a lot about which words they think I correct.Should it
                              be cha or jha etc.
                              > We still have no idea why lanna thai reading are longer/unusual in
                              verse and prose.See their dhammapada by PTS.see bodhi refuse to tran
                              them in his sagathavagga verse because he didn't find com on it.Only
                              deva living aroud there for a long time be able to tell where they
                              get the leaves.
                              > The most important thing about pali eng etc translation is we have
                              to use any theravadin countries nisaya.Bodhi should at least look at
                              3 burmese nisaya in books or leaves if not thai and sri lanka.
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.