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Re: [Pali] food purity/pollution

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  • Ngawang Dorje
    Hi, Are you probably having in mind Matthew 15:17-19? Regards, Rahula ________________________________ From: Jacques Huynen To:
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 10, 2011
      Hi,

      Are you probably having in mind Matthew 15:17-19?

      Regards,

      Rahula


      ________________________________
      From: Jacques Huynen <jhuynen@...>
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 6:58 PM
      Subject: [Pali] food purity/pollution


       
      Hello Friends,
      Would anyone know the ref. in the Pali Tipitaka of a passage where the Buddha states that pollution come from within (mind defilements, greed, anger etc.) not from without (food) ? 
      Thanks 

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Piya Tan
      Dear Jacques, You must be thinking of the *Nibbedhika (Pariyāya) Sutta *(A 6.63): *3b *There are these* five cords of sensual pleasures *(*k**Œ**ma,gu**
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 10, 2011
        Dear Jacques,

        You must be thinking of the *Nibbedhika (Pariyāya) Sutta *(A 6.63):



        *3b *There are these* five cords of sensual pleasures *(*k**Œ**ma,gu**
        ö**a*):

        *Forms* cognizable by the eye that are desirable, attractive,
        pleasant, endearing, associated with sensuality, delightful;

        *Sounds* cognizable by the ear that are, desirable, attractive, pleasant,
        endearing, associated with sensuality, delightful;

        *Smells* cognizable by the nose that are desirable, attractive, pleasant,
        endearing, associated with sensuality, delightful;

        *Tastes* cognizable by the tongue that are desirable, attractive, pleasant,
        endearing, associated with sensuality, delightful;

        *Touches* cognizable by the body that are desirable, attractive,
        pleasant, endearing, associated with sensuality, delightful.

        —*Bhikshus, these are not sensual objects (k**Œ**ma**), but in the
        noble discipline, they are called ‘cords of sensual desire’ (k**Œ**ma,gu**ö*
        *a**)*.[1]<file:///J:/My%20Works%20&%20Courses/My%20works/Sutta%20Discovery%20MAIN/Sutta%20Disco%20v31%20Latent%20tendencies%202011a/31.7%20Sexuality%20piya.doc#_ftn1>



        The thought of passion is a person’s sensuality:

        There is no sensuality in what is beautiful (*citra*) in
        the world.

        The thought of passion is a person’s sensuality:

        What is beautiful in the world remains as they are.

        So here the wise remove the desire for
        them.[2]<file:///J:/My%20Works%20&%20Courses/My%20works/Sutta%20Discovery%20MAIN/Sutta%20Disco%20v31%20Latent%20tendencies%202011a/31.7%20Sexuality%20piya.doc#_ftn2>



        (A 6.63.3/3:410 f) = SD 6.11

        ------------------------------

        [1]<file:///J:/My%20Works%20&%20Courses/My%20works/Sutta%20Discovery%20MAIN/Sutta%20Disco%20v31%20Latent%20tendencies%202011a/31.7%20Sexuality%20piya.doc#_ftnref1>
        *Api ca kho bhikkhave n’ete k**Œm**Œ, k**Œma,gu**ö**Œ nam’ete ariyassa
        vinaye vuccanti.* This is an enigmatic state­ment whose meaning is clarified
        in the verse that follows. See foll n.

        [2]<file:///J:/My%20Works%20&%20Courses/My%20works/Sutta%20Discovery%20MAIN/Sutta%20Disco%20v31%20Latent%20tendencies%202011a/31.7%20Sexuality%20piya.doc#_ftnref2>This
        verse, which explains the previous prose sentence, “plays upon the
        double meaning of *k**Œaama,* emphasizes that purification is to be achieved
        by mastering the defilement of sensuality, not by fleeing [from] sensually
        enticing objects.” (A:ÑB 1999:302 n34). An almost identical verse (without
        line c) is found in *the Na Santi Sutta *(S 1.34). See also *Mine: The
        nature of craving *= SD 19.3 (1.2).
        With metta,

        Piya

        On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 6:58 PM, Jacques Huynen <jhuynen@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Hello Friends,
        > Would anyone know the ref. in the Pali Tipitaka of a passage where the
        > Buddha states that pollution come from within (mind defilements, greed,
        > anger etc.) not from without (food) ?
        > Thanks
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >



        --
        *hp (65) 8211 0879*

        *The Minding Centre*
        170 Upper Bukit Timah Road
        #11-04 Bukit Timah Shopping Centre
        Singapore 588179

        Meditation courses & therapy: http://themindingcentre.org
        Sutta translation: http://dharmafarer.org


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bryan Levman
        Dear Jacques, I do not know if there is an exact statement to this effect (reminds me of Matthew 15:11: What goes into the mouth does not make a man unclean;
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 11, 2011
          Dear Jacques,

          I do not know if there is an exact statement to this effect (reminds me of Matthew 15:11: "What goes into the mouth does not make a man unclean; it is what comes out of the mouth that makes him unclean"), but it is certainly implicit in several parts of the writings, e. g. the Mahāsīhanāda Sutta MN12 (Nanamoli and Bodhi, page 175) where the Buddha refutes the brahmanical doctrine that "Purification comes about through food". The Buddha does however recognize that eating itself can be a source of affliction, either eating too much or when one becomes dependent on almsfood, either a certain type (e. g. meat) or on a certain householder as alms-supplier (MN 55 Jīvaka sutta, page 474 and following). Hope that helps,

          Metta, Bryan




          ________________________________
          From: Jacques Huynen <jhuynen@...>
          To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 6:58:36 AM
          Subject: [Pali] food purity/pollution


           
          Hello Friends,
          Would anyone know the ref. in the Pali Tipitaka of a passage where the Buddha states that pollution come from within (mind defilements, greed, anger etc.) not from without (food) ? 
          Thanks 

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jacques Huynen
          Dear Bryan,   It helps a lot. Thanks.   I knew about Matthew 15:11 and wanted to compare both doctrines about food interdictions, which can also be cause of
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 11, 2011
            Dear Bryan,
             
            It helps a lot. Thanks.
             
            I knew about Matthew 15:11 and wanted to compare both doctrines about food interdictions, which can also be cause of social non-integration and even conflict as can be seen in India, where I am now.
             
            Still the Buddha also seems to emphasize the need to be mindful about what and how you eat, which seems quite reasonable. 
             
            Metta
             
            Jacques  

            --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Bryan Levman <bryan.levman@...> wrote:


            From: Bryan Levman <bryan.levman@...>
            Subject: Re: [Pali] food purity/pollution
            To: "Pali@yahoogroups.com" <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 3:48 PM



             



            Dear Jacques,

            I do not know if there is an exact statement to this effect (reminds me of Matthew 15:11: "What goes into the mouth does not make a man unclean; it is what comes out of the mouth that makes him unclean"), but it is certainly implicit in several parts of the writings, e. g. the Mahāsīhanāda Sutta MN12 (Nanamoli and Bodhi, page 175) where the Buddha refutes the brahmanical doctrine that "Purification comes about through food". The Buddha does however recognize that eating itself can be a source of affliction, either eating too much or when one becomes dependent on almsfood, either a certain type (e. g. meat) or on a certain householder as alms-supplier (MN 55 Jīvaka sutta, page 474 and following). Hope that helps,

            Metta, Bryan

            ________________________________
            From: Jacques Huynen <jhuynen@...>
            To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 6:58:36 AM
            Subject: [Pali] food purity/pollution

             
            Hello Friends,
            Would anyone know the ref. in the Pali Tipitaka of a passage where the Buddha states that pollution come from within (mind defilements, greed, anger etc.) not from without (food) ? 
            Thanks 

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rajendra Jadhao
            The Amagandha Sutta of Sutta Nipata addresses this issue and in this sutta the previous Buddha (I dont remember if its Kassapa Buddha or Konagamana) clearly
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 10, 2011
              The Amagandha Sutta of Sutta Nipata addresses this issue and in this sutta the previous Buddha (I dont remember if its Kassapa Buddha or Konagamana) clearly says that food does not cause polluton.

              R.O. Jadhao

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Bryan Levman
              Sent: 10/11/11 07:18 PM
              To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Pali] food purity/pollution

              Dear Jacques,

              I do not know if there is an exact statement to this effect (reminds me of Matthew 15:11: "What goes into the mouth does not make a man unclean; it is what comes out of the mouth that makes him unclean"), but it is certainly implicit in several parts of the writings, e. g. the Mahāsīhanāda Sutta MN12 (Nanamoli and Bodhi, page 175) where the Buddha refutes the brahmanical doctrine that "Purification comes about through food". The Buddha does however recognize that eating itself can be a source of affliction, either eating too much or when one becomes dependent on almsfood, either a certain type (e. g. meat) or on a certain householder as alms-supplier (MN 55 Jīvaka sutta, page 474 and following). Hope that helps,

              Metta, Bryan

              ________________________________
              From: Jacques Huynen < jhuynen%2540yahoo.com >
              To: Pali%2540yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 6:58:36 AM
              Subject: [Pali] food purity/pollution


              Hello Friends,
              Would anyone know the ref. in the Pali Tipitaka of a passage where the Buddha states that pollution come from within (mind defilements, greed, anger etc.) not from without (food) ?
              Thanks

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bryan Levman
              Dear Rajendra, Thanks for bringing this to the group s attention.Yes here the Buddha (Kassapa) repeatedly states esāmagandho na hi maṃsabhojanam... ( this
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 12, 2011
                Dear Rajendra,

                Thanks for bringing this to the group's attention.Yes here the Buddha (Kassapa) repeatedly states
                esāmagandho na hi maṃsabhojanam... ("this is tainted fare, not the eating of flesh" per Norman's translation), in reference to hurting others, breaking the precepts, anger, arrogance, etc.).


                Metta, Bryan





                ________________________________
                From: Rajendra Jadhao <jadhao@...>
                To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 2:05:24 AM
                Subject: Re: [Pali] food purity/pollution


                 
                The Amagandha Sutta of Sutta Nipata addresses this issue and in this sutta the previous Buddha (I dont remember if its Kassapa Buddha or Konagamana) clearly says that food does not cause polluton.

                R.O. Jadhao

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Bryan Levman
                Sent: 10/11/11 07:18 PM
                To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Pali] food purity/pollution

                Dear Jacques,

                I do not know if there is an exact statement to this effect (reminds me of Matthew 15:11: "What goes into the mouth does not make a man unclean; it is what comes out of the mouth that makes him unclean"), but it is certainly implicit in several parts of the writings, e. g. the Mahāsīhanāda Sutta MN12 (Nanamoli and Bodhi, page 175) where the Buddha refutes the brahmanical doctrine that "Purification comes about through food". The Buddha does however recognize that eating itself can be a source of affliction, either eating too much or when one becomes dependent on almsfood, either a certain type (e. g. meat) or on a certain householder as alms-supplier (MN 55 Jīvaka sutta, page 474 and following). Hope that helps,

                Metta, Bryan

                ________________________________
                From: Jacques Huynen < jhuynen%2540yahoo.com >
                To: Pali%2540yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 6:58:36 AM
                Subject: [Pali] food purity/pollution

                Hello Friends,
                Would anyone know the ref. in the Pali Tipitaka of a passage where the Buddha states that pollution come from within (mind defilements, greed, anger etc.) not from without (food) ?
                Thanks

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nicki Karu
                Dear friends,   ....  bhikkhave, sāhāraṃ vadāmi, no anāhāraṃ. .... can be found at   http://tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/s0404m3.mul6.xml
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 12, 2011
                  Dear friends,
                   
                  ....  bhikkhave, sāhāraṃ vadāmi, no anāhāraṃ. .... can be found at
                   
                  http://tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/s0404m3.mul6.xml
                  http://metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-Nikaya/Anguttara6/10-dasakanipata/007-yamakavaggo-e.html
                   
                   
                  Regards,
                  Nicki

                   

                  ________________________________
                  De : Bryan Levman <bryan.levman@...>
                  À : "Pali@yahoogroups.com" <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
                  Envoyé le : Samedi 12 Novembre 2011 12h21
                  Objet : Re: [Pali] food purity/pollution



                   

                  Dear Rajendra,

                  Thanks for bringing this to the group's attention.Yes here the Buddha (Kassapa) repeatedly states
                  esāmagandho na hi maṃsabhojanam... ("this is tainted fare, not the eating of flesh" per Norman's translation), in reference to hurting others, breaking the precepts, anger, arrogance, etc.).

                  Metta, Bryan

                  ________________________________
                  From: Rajendra Jadhao <jadhao@...>
                  To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 2:05:24 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Pali] food purity/pollution

                   
                  The Amagandha Sutta of Sutta Nipata addresses this issue and in this sutta the previous Buddha (I dont remember if its Kassapa Buddha or Konagamana) clearly says that food does not cause polluton.

                  R.O. Jadhao

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Bryan Levman
                  Sent: 10/11/11 07:18 PM
                  To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Pali] food purity/pollution

                  Dear Jacques,

                  I do not know if there is an exact statement to this effect (reminds me of Matthew 15:11: "What goes into the mouth does not make a man unclean; it is what comes out of the mouth that makes him unclean"), but it is certainly implicit in several parts of the writings, e. g. the Mahāsīhanāda Sutta MN12 (Nanamoli and Bodhi, page 175) where the Buddha refutes the brahmanical doctrine that "Purification comes about through food". The Buddha does however recognize that eating itself can be a source of affliction, either eating too much or when one becomes dependent on almsfood, either a certain type (e. g. meat) or on a certain householder as alms-supplier (MN 55 Jīvaka sutta, page 474 and following). Hope that helps,

                  Metta, Bryan

                  ________________________________
                  From: Jacques Huynen < jhuynen%2540yahoo.com >
                  To: Pali%2540yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 6:58:36 AM
                  Subject: [Pali] food purity/pollution

                  Hello Friends,
                  Would anyone know the ref. in the Pali Tipitaka of a passage where the Buddha states that pollution come from within (mind defilements, greed, anger etc.) not from without (food) ?
                  Thanks

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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