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Re: The New Pali Course Part III [49/120] gerund and gerundive.

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Bryan, thank you for your confirmation and explanations about gerunds and absolutives. I note that you further describe participles as being used as
    Message 1 of 102 , Jul 16 12:37 AM
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      Dear Bryan,

      thank you for your confirmation and explanations about gerunds and absolutives.

      I note that you further describe participles as being used as adjectives, this is well understood from similar usage in English. I just hope people do not get confuse with gerundives, participles and adjectives.

      metta,
      Yong Peng.


      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Levman wrote:

      You're right, the normal way to describe a word like vanditvaa is as an absolutive. It is the "absolute" form of the verb as it is indeclinable - one form is used in all situations. It is usu. translated as "Having [verb]ed" or "After [verb]ing", or "When s/he had [verb]ed." but can also be used in a passive mood, if the sentence is passive.

      A word like gamana "going" I would call a gerund, which is a verbal noun, used as a noun as e.g. "Going to temple is fun". "Going (to temple)" is the subject of the sentence with going in the nominative (devagaha.m gamana.m) and is acting more as a noun for that reason. So yes I agree that gamana is a gerund and gantvaa is better called an absolutive.

      > Forms like vanditvaa, "having praised", do we call them gerunds, or should we call them absolutives instead? If we define gerunds strictly as "verbal noun", then words like vanditvaa are hardly used as nouns in Pali.
      > One example is 'gacchati', we have 'gantvaa' meaning 'having gone', and we also have 'gamana' meaning 'going'. In this case, 'gamana' fit the description of a gerund better than 'gantvaa'. Do you agree?
    • Bryan Levman
      Thanks Nina for the explanation. You certainly know more about this material (Abhidhamma) than I do, Metta, Bryan ... From: Nina van Gorkom
      Message 102 of 102 , Jul 26 8:46 AM
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        Thanks Nina for the explanation. You certainly know more about this material (Abhidhamma) than I do,

        Metta, Bryan



        --- On Tue, 7/26/11, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

        From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
        Subject: Re: [Pali] The New Pali Course Part III [50/120]
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Received: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 1:47 PM
















         









        Dear Bryan,

        Op 26-jul-2011, om 14:52 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:



        > I am not so sure about maggaphala as a dvandva. The PED seems to

        > suggest that the compound is identical with sotaapattiphala, i. .e

        > the fruit of entering upon the path, which would make it a gen.

        > tatpurusa.

        ------

        N: There are the expressions: sotaapatti magga and sotaapatti phala.

        I think that these refer to the magga-citta (lokuttara kusala citta)

        of the sotaapanna and the phalacitta (lokuttara vipaakacitta

        immediately following) of the sotaapanna. Thus, sotapattiphala: who

        has realized the fruition-consciousness of the stage of the sotaapanna.

        I have come across the expression of someone who should realize

        maggaphala. I take this as: realize maggacitta and phalacitta.



        -------

        Nina.



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