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Re: [Pali] Sutta Translation: Word by Word

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  • nina van gorkom
    Dear Yong Peng, For me personally it is time consumung to go on webs, but maybe for the others? My access is so slow. And so difficult to find the time. I
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 29 7:12 AM
      Dear Yong Peng,
      For me personally it is time consumung to go on webs, but maybe for the
      others? My access is so slow. And so difficult to find the time. I prefer E
      mail, printing out and looking at texts.
      I have another idea too, but do not know whether it is suitable for
      beginning students, but I am also beginning. It is so difficult to
      understand a sutta without commentary. What about reading a few paras of the
      sutta and then after that its commentary and subcommentary, relating to the
      sutta passage, bit by bit. Then going on again with sutta and so on.
      Commentary may seem too difficult at first but once one starts diffiulties
      can be overcome. What do you think?
      Nina.

      op 28-12-2002 04:23 schreef Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@...> op
      ypong001@...:

      > Hence, I have rebuilt the STrans page and starting with
      > Maharahulovada Sutta, I will construct a word-by-word list of the
      > sutta with its English enquivalent and our discussion and insights
      > shared by members. The link is http://www.tipitaka.net/strans/
    • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
      Dear Piya and friends, I am very grateful for your help. In fact, I am willing to collaborate with anyone who would be able to help in the dhamma work for
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 29 11:47 PM
        Dear Piya and friends,

        I am very grateful for your help. In fact, I am willing to
        collaborate with anyone who would be able to help in the dhamma work
        for Tipitaka Network. Developing it into an online community requires
        both participants as well as architects who design, built, manage and
        maintain the community.

        I am also grateful to those who have corresponded with me and
        provided help in private. Thank you very much.

        I will be very grateful if more people with the relevant knowledge
        and skills will come forward and offer their assistance as a form of
        dana, not just to the Buddhist community, but to reach out to the
        world. The knowledge and skills require include: good knowledge of
        Buddhism, Sutta studies, Pali knowledge, web programming, web design,
        CG graphics and animation, multimedia.

        I agree with Piya that more people and resources is an advantage.
        It's certainly better than me working alone now. If you are able to
        help in any area, please email me at ypong001@...

        The approach that I take for Tipitaka Network is not an all-out
        aggressive one because I don't really like to be evangelical.
        However, there are truly a lot of things I would like to do for
        Tipitaka Network.

        Sutta Translation will remain as an ongoing activity. At the same
        time PALI, PCD and PGT also needs to be expanded and updated.

        If you have an interesting topic to write about, you can also
        contribute your article to

        1. The Pali Companion: on the history, development, linguistics of
        pali language http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/companion/

        2. B-Cube: short articles (1000-2000 words) on basic Buddhism,
        Buddhist topics, personal experience/testimony, comparative religion
        http://www.tipitaka.net/b-cube/

        3. Long essays: http://www.tipitaka.net/ebooks/

        4. Sutta studies and research: http://www.tipitaka.net/study

        5. Buddhist history: http://www.tipitaka.net/moments

        Piya, kindly share the plans you have in mind. I'm sure we can work
        out something that is mutually agreeable and beneficial.

        As for the word, do you mean it should be spelt Aggikkhandhapama, or
        are you referring to something else? Please advise.

        Thank you.

        metta,
        Yong Peng.

        --- Piya Tan wrote:
        > Since it is, for good reasons, you are unable to work with me, I
        will work with you instead. That is, I will try to fit the Tipitaka
        Community in with my own workload as much as I can. This would bring
        greater advantage for more people, that is, if we can pool our
        resources together.
        >
        > BTW in your Aggikkhandhopama Sutta, please note that the word is
        khandha (not khanda).
      • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
        Dear Nina and friends, please do not worry, the sutta translation activity will carry out as it is through e-mail. What I will be putting up under the strans
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 30 12:04 AM
          Dear Nina and friends,

          please do not worry, the sutta translation activity will carry out as
          it is through e-mail. What I will be putting up under the strans site
          is to organise all the many emails we generated into a more
          presentable form for further study, revision, or research. That will
          save a person time from searching through the mail archive at Yahoo!

          I understand about the slow connection members are facing, and that
          is why I am quite hesitant to put more graphics on the webpages.

          I like your idea of referring to the commentary and subcommentary
          when doing the sutta translation. I think it is necessary for a
          perfect translation. Referring to the comm. and subs retain the
          lineage as well as provide insights and contextual information which
          we may not be aware of. It is really important. But I can't really
          commit to it because I have never read any commentary before, and I
          can only consider to be proficient in English and Chinese so I may
          have problems with them. :-)

          However, if you can commit your time and knowledge, then yes, let's
          go ahead with it. What do you suggest we start with? Can you also
          provide some background on the commentaries and subcommentaries?

          Thank you.

          metta,
          Yong Peng.

          --- nina van gorkom wrote:
          > For me personally it is time consumung to go on webs, but maybe for
          the others? My access is so slow. And so difficult to find the time.
          I prefer E mail, printing out and looking at texts.
          > I have another idea too, but do not know whether it is suitable for
          beginning students, but I am also beginning. It is so difficult to
          understand a sutta without commentary. What about reading a few paras
          of the sutta and then after that its commentary and subcommentary,
          relating to the sutta passage, bit by bit. Then going on again with
          sutta and so on.
          > Commentary may seem too difficult at first but once one starts
          diffiulties can be overcome. What do you think?
        • Piya Tan
          Yong Peng, Good to see the Tipitaka Website growing and I will do what I can. The sutta title should be: Aggikkhandhopama Sutta Sukhi. P.
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 30 4:13 AM
            Yong Peng,

            Good to see the Tipitaka Website growing and I will do what I can.

            The sutta title should be:

            Aggikkhandhopama Sutta

            Sukhi.

            P.

            "Ong Yong Peng " wrote:

            > Dear Piya and friends,
            >
            > I am very grateful for your help. In fact, I am willing to
            > collaborate with anyone who would be able to help in the dhamma work
            > for Tipitaka Network. Developing it into an online community requires
            > both participants as well as architects who design, built, manage and
            > maintain the community.
            >
            > I am also grateful to those who have corresponded with me and
            > provided help in private. Thank you very much.
            >
            > I will be very grateful if more people with the relevant knowledge
            > and skills will come forward and offer their assistance as a form of
            > dana, not just to the Buddhist community, but to reach out to the
            > world. The knowledge and skills require include: good knowledge of
            > Buddhism, Sutta studies, Pali knowledge, web programming, web design,
            > CG graphics and animation, multimedia.
            >
            > I agree with Piya that more people and resources is an advantage.
            > It's certainly better than me working alone now. If you are able to
            > help in any area, please email me at ypong001@...
            >
            > The approach that I take for Tipitaka Network is not an all-out
            > aggressive one because I don't really like to be evangelical.
            > However, there are truly a lot of things I would like to do for
            > Tipitaka Network.
            >
            > Sutta Translation will remain as an ongoing activity. At the same
            > time PALI, PCD and PGT also needs to be expanded and updated.
            >
            > If you have an interesting topic to write about, you can also
            > contribute your article to
            >
            > 1. The Pali Companion: on the history, development, linguistics of
            > pali language http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/companion/
            >
            > 2. B-Cube: short articles (1000-2000 words) on basic Buddhism,
            > Buddhist topics, personal experience/testimony, comparative religion
            > http://www.tipitaka.net/b-cube/
            >
            > 3. Long essays: http://www.tipitaka.net/ebooks/
            >
            > 4. Sutta studies and research: http://www.tipitaka.net/study
            >
            > 5. Buddhist history: http://www.tipitaka.net/moments
            >
            > Piya, kindly share the plans you have in mind. I'm sure we can work
            > out something that is mutually agreeable and beneficial.
            >
            > As for the word, do you mean it should be spelt Aggikkhandhapama, or
            > are you referring to something else? Please advise.
            >
            > Thank you.
            >
            > metta,
            > Yong Peng.
            >
            > --- Piya Tan wrote:
            > > Since it is, for good reasons, you are unable to work with me, I
            > will work with you instead. That is, I will try to fit the Tipitaka
            > Community in with my own workload as much as I can. This would bring
            > greater advantage for more people, that is, if we can pool our
            > resources together.
            > >
            > > BTW in your Aggikkhandhopama Sutta, please note that the word is
            > khandha (not khanda).
            >
            > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
            > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
            > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Piya Tan
            Yong Peng, It s great to have Nyanaponika s Word of the Buddha online. If you could add a Download Button (that is, one button to download the whole file) it
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 30 4:30 AM
              Yong Peng,

              It's great to have Nyanaponika's Word of the Buddha online.

              If you could add a Download Button (that is, one button to download the whole file)
              it would help many who would like to read it offline.

              Sukhi.

              P.

              "Ong Yong Peng " wrote:

              > Dear Piya and friends,
              >
              > I am very grateful for your help. In fact, I am willing to
              > collaborate with anyone who would be able to help in the dhamma work
              > for Tipitaka Network. Developing it into an online community requires
              > both participants as well as architects who design, built, manage and
              > maintain the community.
              >
              > I am also grateful to those who have corresponded with me and
              > provided help in private. Thank you very much.
              >
              > I will be very grateful if more people with the relevant knowledge
              > and skills will come forward and offer their assistance as a form of
              > dana, not just to the Buddhist community, but to reach out to the
              > world. The knowledge and skills require include: good knowledge of
              > Buddhism, Sutta studies, Pali knowledge, web programming, web design,
              > CG graphics and animation, multimedia.
              >
              > I agree with Piya that more people and resources is an advantage.
              > It's certainly better than me working alone now. If you are able to
              > help in any area, please email me at ypong001@...
              >
              > The approach that I take for Tipitaka Network is not an all-out
              > aggressive one because I don't really like to be evangelical.
              > However, there are truly a lot of things I would like to do for
              > Tipitaka Network.
              >
              > Sutta Translation will remain as an ongoing activity. At the same
              > time PALI, PCD and PGT also needs to be expanded and updated.
              >
              > If you have an interesting topic to write about, you can also
              > contribute your article to
              >
              > 1. The Pali Companion: on the history, development, linguistics of
              > pali language http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/companion/
              >
              > 2. B-Cube: short articles (1000-2000 words) on basic Buddhism,
              > Buddhist topics, personal experience/testimony, comparative religion
              > http://www.tipitaka.net/b-cube/
              >
              > 3. Long essays: http://www.tipitaka.net/ebooks/
              >
              > 4. Sutta studies and research: http://www.tipitaka.net/study
              >
              > 5. Buddhist history: http://www.tipitaka.net/moments
              >
              > Piya, kindly share the plans you have in mind. I'm sure we can work
              > out something that is mutually agreeable and beneficial.
              >
              > As for the word, do you mean it should be spelt Aggikkhandhapama, or
              > are you referring to something else? Please advise.
              >
              > Thank you.
              >
              > metta,
              > Yong Peng.
              >
              > --- Piya Tan wrote:
              > > Since it is, for good reasons, you are unable to work with me, I
              > will work with you instead. That is, I will try to fit the Tipitaka
              > Community in with my own workload as much as I can. This would bring
              > greater advantage for more people, that is, if we can pool our
              > resources together.
              > >
              > > BTW in your Aggikkhandhopama Sutta, please note that the word is
              > khandha (not khanda).
              >
              > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
              > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
              > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
              > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
              > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • nina van gorkom
              Dear Yong Peng, op 30-12-2002 09:04 schreef Ong Yong Peng op ... really ... Nina: I feel I am dependent on the knowledge of experts here.
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 31 7:06 AM
                Dear Yong Peng,

                op 30-12-2002 09:04 schreef Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@...> op
                ypong001@...:

                > I like your idea of referring to the commentary and subcommentary
                > when doing the sutta translation.... It is really important. But I can't
                really
                > commit to it because I have never read any commentary before...
                > However, if you can commit your time and knowledge, then yes, let's
                > go ahead with it. What do you suggest we start with? Can you also
                > provide some background on the commentaries and subcommentaries?

                Nina: I feel I am dependent on the knowledge of experts here. For myself I
                just started to read here and there parts of commentaries, struggling, but
                it is very valuable, even when reading a little. I wonder whether
                Buddhaghosa's Commentary to Mahaaraahulovaadasutta sutta, the
                Papa~casuudanii, could be given here part by part. Or just some parts which
                directly relate to the lines we are reading. If this is complicated I am
                going to order the Pali text for myself and study it. I have the Thai
                translation of the commentary to back me up. Meanwhile I could add some info
                from this Thai co.
                Historical background, this is more for those knowledgeable in history. See
                Visuddhimagga, tr by Nyaa.namoli. Also: The Life and work of Buddhaghosa, by
                B.C. Law, Pilgrims Books, Delhi, ISBN 81-7624-054-0. It is very good.
                As to subcommentary, Tiika, Aacariya Dhammapaala, what little I read, I just
                find very interesting and helpful.
                I do not take much to history, I find it more convincing to read the texts.
                Then we can see Buddhaghosa's devotion to preserving the integrity of the
                teachings, his insistance on vipassanaa pa~n~naa, understanding the
                khandhas, dhaatus, ayatanas.

                I am sorry I cannot be of much help,
                Nina.

                P.S. For John and Gabriel: the prefix upa in upakilesa: in my Pali Thai
                dictionary upa can mean: entering into . The dhamma by which one enters into
                what is impure. Or the object that appears to the citta and conditions citta
                to be impure with covetousness etc.
              • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
                Dear Piya and friends, thanks again. As for Ven. Nyanaponika s WOB, there used to be a downloadable MS Word document (if I am not mistaken). However, it seems
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 1, 2003
                  Dear Piya and friends,

                  thanks again. As for Ven. Nyanaponika's WOB, there used to be a
                  downloadable MS Word document (if I am not mistaken). However, it
                  seems to be gone or lost in cyberspace.

                  I will generate a PDF file for it and put it under the file section.

                  metta,
                  Yong Peng.

                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan wrote:
                  > It's great to have Nyanaponika's Word of the Buddha online.
                  > If you could add a Download Button (that is, one button to download
                  the whole file) it would help many who would like to read it offline.
                • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
                  Dear Nina and friends, thanks for the info. For the sutta translation, let s take a step at a time. For your comments on Buddhaghosa, I share similar respect
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 1, 2003
                    Dear Nina and friends,

                    thanks for the info. For the sutta translation, let's take a step at
                    a time. For your comments on Buddhaghosa, I share similar respect for
                    him and his works. In fact, one of the main reason I learn pali is to
                    be able to read many pali texts (such as Buddhaghosa's) not yet
                    available in English, and since I do not know Thai, Sinhala and
                    Burmese, it will be best to learn pali.

                    metta,
                    Yong Peng.

                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, nina van gorkom wrote:
                    > I do not take much to history, I find it more convincing to read
                    the texts. Then we can see Buddhaghosa's devotion to preserving the
                    integrity of the teachings, his insistance on vipassanaa pa~n~naa,
                    understanding the khandhas, dhaatus, ayatanas.
                  • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
                    Dear Piya and friends, my mistake, it should be a pdf file, and I actually have it on my harddisk. I rediscover it while I clean up and backup my files this
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 14, 2003
                      Dear Piya and friends,

                      my mistake, it should be a pdf file, and I actually have it on my
                      harddisk. I rediscover it while I clean up and backup my files this
                      afternoon. I have zipped and uploaded the file here:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/files/wordofbuddha.zip

                      I am not sure where I got it from, there is no information in the
                      file except that the authors are David & Marian Cortesi. It is also
                      not available at Buddhanet.

                      metta,
                      Yong Peng.

                      --- Ong Yong Peng wrote:
                      > thanks again. As for Ven. Nyanaponika's WOB, there used to be a
                      > downloadable MS Word document (if I am not mistaken). However, it
                      > seems to be gone or lost in cyberspace.
                      >
                      > I will generate a PDF file for it and put it under the file section.
                      >
                      > metta,
                      > Yong Peng.
                      >
                      > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan wrote:
                      > > It's great to have Nyanaponika's Word of the Buddha online.
                      > > If you could add a Download Button (that is, one button to
                      download
                      > the whole file) it would help many who would like to read it
                      offline.
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