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RE: [Pali] Re: The New Pali Course Part III [45/120]

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  • James Whelan
    Dear All. May I suggest as follows: rakkhitaa is not the past passive participle, but the agent noun, meaning protector. Accustive rakkhitaaram. Skt
    Message 1 of 102 , May 10, 2011
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      Dear All.



      May I suggest as follows:



      rakkhitaa is not the past passive participle, but the agent noun, meaning protector. Accustive rakkhitaaram. Skt rakshitaa acc. rakshitaaram. As e.g. in the name 'dharmarakshitaa' = the protector of the dharma.



      The construction of ~ maataa na pitaa na bhaatikaadiisu is 'not among mother or father or brothers or others'.



      Treat maataa-pitaa-bhaatikaadisu as a compound noun, with 'na' inserted between the elements to reinforce the negation. The meaning would be the same if it read: 'na maataapitaabhaatikaadisu', and indeed that reading would be more normal.



      So: there was no protector among mother, father, brothers or others'.



      The meaning is that usually, from among mother, father, brothers and others we have at least one protector. In this case, from among all those people, there was no protector.



      The puzzle about anekasahassaa ajaa is solved if the meaning is she-goats. Singular ajaa, plural (nom. and acc.) ajaa or ajaayo.



      Does this clarify?



      Metta

      James Whelan



      From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Levman
      Sent: 10 May 2011 13:03
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: The New Pali Course Part III [45/120]





      Dear Yong Peng,

      Burlingame translates this as follows:

      (She took the child laid him in the bushes, and stood at one side.) But neither dog nor crow nor demon dared to appraoch him. Pray, if he had neither mother nor father nor brother nor other knsman to protect him, what was it that did protect him? All that protected him was his howling for love of the Private Buddha in his former existence as a dog. Just then a goatherd passed on one side of the burning-ground, leading several thousand goats to pasture. (page 258).

      This brings up the following grammatical points:
      rakkhitaa which is a past passive participle is here being used in the active sense (which is possible, but usually with an intranstive verb. rakkhati is transitive.)
      mataa and pitaa are in nom. case. I don't understand why bhaatikaadiisu is in the loc. plural.
      anekasahassaa and ajaa are in the accus. plural object of nento (leading). An accus. plural in -aa is unheard of as far as I know (in a masc. noun). It does happen in Ardha Maagadhii and presumably stands for -aan, with the final -n disappearing
      kaale would be in the locative according to this translation

      Burlingame, E. W. 1921. Buddhist Legends, 3 volumes.

      Metta, Bryan

      --- On Tue, 5/10/11, Ong Yong Peng <palismith@... <mailto:palismith%40gmail.com> > wrote:

      From: Ong Yong Peng <palismith@... <mailto:palismith%40gmail.com> >
      Subject: [Pali] Re: The New Pali Course Part III [45/120]
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
      Received: Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 3:19 AM



      Dear Nina and friends,

      this is a harder one, so any positive inputs will be appreciated.

      Ta.m sunakho vaa kaako vaa amanusso vaa upasa`nkamitu.m naasakkhi*.

      The dog or the crow or the non-human being was not able to approach it.

      * naasakkhi = na + asakkhi. For asakkhi, see PED sakkoti.

      "Nanu cassa* neva* maataa na pitaa na bhaatikaadiisu koci rakkhitaa naama atthi, ko ta.m rakkhati"ti?

      "Surely there is and there may be neither among mother nor father nor brother and so on, someone protected indeed, who/what protects it?"

      * cassa = ca + assa

      * neva = na + eva

      Sunakhakaale pacceka-Buddhe sinehena pavattitabhukkara.na-mattameva ta.m rakkhati.

      The dog always go about barking so much with affection, it protects the Pacceka-Buddhas so.

      Atheko* ajapaalako anekasahassaa ajaa gocara.m nento susaanapassena gacchati.

      Now, one goat-man carrying food from the several thousand goats goes through the side of the cemetery.

      * atheko = atha + eko

      metta,

      Yong Peng.

      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> , Ong Yong Peng wrote:

      The second sentence is from Appamaadavagga/Saamaavatiivatthu referencing verses 21-23: appamado amatapada.m...

      [Comm.] "Nanu cassa neva maataa na pitaa na bhaatikaadiisu koci rakkhitaa naama atthi, ko ta.m rakkhati"ti? Sunakhakaale pacceka-Buddhe sinehena pavattitabhukkara.na-mattameva ta.m rakkhati. Atheko ajapaalako anekasahassaa ajaa gocara.m nento susaanapassena gacchati.

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    • Bryan Levman
      Thanks Nina for the explanation. You certainly know more about this material (Abhidhamma) than I do, Metta, Bryan ... From: Nina van Gorkom
      Message 102 of 102 , Jul 26 8:46 AM
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        Thanks Nina for the explanation. You certainly know more about this material (Abhidhamma) than I do,

        Metta, Bryan



        --- On Tue, 7/26/11, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

        From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
        Subject: Re: [Pali] The New Pali Course Part III [50/120]
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Received: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 1:47 PM
















         









        Dear Bryan,

        Op 26-jul-2011, om 14:52 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:



        > I am not so sure about maggaphala as a dvandva. The PED seems to

        > suggest that the compound is identical with sotaapattiphala, i. .e

        > the fruit of entering upon the path, which would make it a gen.

        > tatpurusa.

        ------

        N: There are the expressions: sotaapatti magga and sotaapatti phala.

        I think that these refer to the magga-citta (lokuttara kusala citta)

        of the sotaapanna and the phalacitta (lokuttara vipaakacitta

        immediately following) of the sotaapanna. Thus, sotapattiphala: who

        has realized the fruition-consciousness of the stage of the sotaapanna.

        I have come across the expression of someone who should realize

        maggaphala. I take this as: realize maggacitta and phalacitta.



        -------

        Nina.



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