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AN2.4 Samacitta Vagga (8)

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Nina and friends, Aavuso ti kho te bhikkhuu aayasmato saariputtassa paccassosu.m. friend / indeed / those / monks / to venerable / to Sariputta /
    Message 1 of 46 , May 1, 2011
      Dear Nina and friends,

      "Aavuso"ti kho te bhikkhuu aayasmato saariputtassa paccassosu.m.
      friend / indeed / those / monks / to venerable / to Sariputta / assented
      "Friend," to the venerable Sariputta, those monks assented indeed.

      Aayasmaa saariputto etadavoca -
      venerable / Sariputta / this-said
      The venerable Sariputta said this -

      "ajjhattasa.myojana~nca, aavuso, puggala.m desessaami bahiddhaasa.myojana~nca.
      inner fetter-and / friends / person / will teach / outer fetter-and
      "Friends, I will teach (about) a person (of) inner fetter and (a person of) outer fetter.

      ajjhattasa.myojana = ajjhatta sa.myojana (n) inner fetter.
      * ajjhatta (adv) inwardly, inside.
      * sa.myojana (n) fetter, bond.
      puggala (m) person.
      bahiddhaasa.myojana = bahiddhaa sa.myojana (n) outer fetter.
      * bahiddhaa (adv) outwardly, outside.

      Ta.m su.naatha, saadhuka.m manasi karotha;
      it / listen / pay full attention
      Listen to this, and pay full attention;

      bhaasissaamii"ti.
      shall speak
      I shall speak."

      "Evamaavuso"ti kho te bhikkhuu aayasmato saariputtassa paccassosu.m.
      thus-friend / indeed / those / monks / to venerable / to Sariputta / assented
      "Yes, friend," indeed, to the venerable Sariputta, those monks assented.

      Aayasmaa saariputto etadavoca -
      venerable / Sariputta / this-said
      The venerable Sariputta said this -

      "Katamo caavuso, ajjhattasa.myojano puggalo?
      which / and-friends / inner fetter / person
      "And friends, which is a person (with) inner fetter?

      Idhaavuso, bhikkhu siilavaa hoti, paatimokkhasa.mvarasa.mvuto viharati aacaaragocarasampanno, a.numattesu vajjesu bhayadassaavii, samaadaaya sikkhati sikkhaapadesu.
      here-friends / monk / virtuous / is / self-restrained with the bounds of monastic rules / lives / successful in observing good conduct / in slightest / in faults / one who sees danger / having taken up / trains oneself / in precepts
      Friends, here, the monk is virtuous, (he) lives self-restrained with the bounds of monastic rules, successful in observing good conduct, (he) sees danger in the slightest faults, takes up and trains himself in the precepts.

      idha (adv) here.
      siilavantu (adj) virtuous.
      paatimokkhasa.mvarasa.mvuta (adj) self-restrained with the bounds of monastic rules.
      * paatimokkha (n) monastic rules.
      * sa.mvara (m) restraint.
      * sa.mvuta (pp of sa.mvarati) restrained.
      aacaaragocarasampanna (adj) successful in observing good conduct.
      * aacaara (m) conduct.
      * gocara (m) partaking [see PED go].
      * sampanna (pp of sampajjati) successful, perfect.
      a.numatta (adj) of small size, least.
      vajja (n) fault.
      bhayadassaavii (m) one who sees danger.
      samaadiyati (v) takes up.
      sikkhati (v) trains oneself.
      sikkhaapada (n) precept.

      So kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa a~n~natara.m devanikaaya.m upapajjati.
      he / of body / from breaking / after / from death / certain / heavenly realm / is reborn in
      He is reborn in a certain heavenly realm after the dissolution of the body and after death.

      kaaya (m) body.
      bheda (m) breaking.
      para.m (adv) after.
      mara.na (n) death.
      [kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa - after the breaking up of the body & after death. (PTS PED bheda)]
      devanikaaya (m) heavenly realm.
      upapajjati (v) is reborn in.

      So tato cuto aagaamii hoti, aagantaa itthatta.m.
      he / from there / passed on / returner / is / one who comes / to this world
      Passed on from there, he is a returner, coming (back) to this world.

      tato (adv) from there.
      cuta (pp of cavati) deceased, passed on.
      aagaamin (n) returner.
      aagantar (n) one who comes.
      itthatta (n) this world.

      Aya.m vuccati, aavuso, ajjhattasa.myojano puggalo aagaamii hoti, aagantaa itthatta.m.
      this / is called / friends / inner fetter / person / returner / is / one who comes / to this world
      Friends, this is called a person (with) inner fetter (who) is a returner, coming (back) to this world.

      vuccati (v) is called.



      metta,
      Yong Peng.
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Ven. Sobhana, thank you. The name is Yong Peng. It is good you look up another source, but you have not gone much into details. Allow me to help elaborate
      Message 46 of 46 , Jul 4, 2011
        Dear Ven. Sobhana,

        thank you. The name is Yong Peng.

        It is good you look up another source, but you have not gone much into details. Allow me to help elaborate on point 1(a). This is exactly what the commentary says:

        saadhuuti aayaacanatthe nipaato.

        First, I annotate it for the beginners:

        saadhuuti aayaacan'atthe nipaato.

        Now, translating the commentary:

        'saadhu' (is) a particle for asking*, adhortation*, addressing*.

        * see PTS PED - aayaacana.

        Further explanation:

        In Pali, nipaata includes conjunctions and adverbs. So, we can translate 'saadhu' as 'please'.

        Finally, I make an attempt with the original sentence to show what I mean:

        Saadhu, bhante, bhagavaa yena aayasmaa saariputto tenupasa`nkamatu anukampa.m upaadaayaa'ti.
        please / venerable sir / Blessed One / where / venerable / Sariputta /
        there-let...approach / out of compassion
        Please, sir, may the Blessed One, out of compassion, approach there [the place] where the venerable Sariputta (is staying).'

        There is a tendency for some, as I pointed in a recent post, to rationalise the Pali using an existing English translation. I find it uncomprehensible when given our level of Pali understanding, we can do a slightly better job. In fact, I also see lurking dangers in doing so. I do not intend to elaborate on this.

        As a PTS sponsoring member, I am also using F.L.Woodward's translation as a reference in this exercise, i.e., from AN1.1.1, another point which I have mentioned several times too. However, that does not mean it is my only reference, or that I have to reproduce directly from PTS or any other existing works. This "read and follow" mentality is more suitable for someone who only needs an English translation, and does not bother with the original Pali passage, not a Pali student.

        It is in fact much easier for me to type out the PTS translation, than doing extensive referencing on dictionaries, grammars, and cross checking other translations. However, this is not a "typing" exercise for me, and I would rather spend my time doing something more meaningful. Let's make this a good learning opportunity for everyone, so that the time and effort we put in is rewarding.

        Lastly, if you use additional examples in Pali, please bear in mind, it is your responsibility to provide an accurate English translation. Anyone can generate Pali sentences using the appropriate search tool/program.

        I will make this post as a 'landmark' message for the future. Thank you.

        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, USO wrote:

        Here are some of the meanings of Saadhu from One of the Pali-Myanmar Dictionaries.
        1. "i request you" (aayaacana); "I order you" (aanatti).
        2. o.k., alright(sampa.ticchana)
        3. interjection used to rejoice (anumodana)
        4. good, beautiful (sunadara, bhaddaka, sobhana)
        5. well (adverb)
        6.pure (parisuddha)
        7. wholesome action...

        Here, we take the first meaning in cases like the one you are discussing. The commentaries also explain as 'aayaacana'. In Burma, we explain like this: yena aayasmaa saariputto (atthi) tena upasa'nkamatu. 'Tena' here is used in the sense of second case: 'to', 'towards'. Here, it will be 'aayaacama' for a group of deities are requesting the Buddha.
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