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Sutta Translation: Word by Word

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  • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
    Dear Piya, Nina and friends, after discussion with Piya (and the recent feedback from Nina), I realised that it is important to organise the bits of our
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 27, 2002
      Dear Piya, Nina and friends,

      after discussion with Piya (and the recent feedback from Nina), I
      realised that it is important to organise the bits of our translation
      work into a presentable and easily accessible form to serve as a
      reference and study aid for others. I used to think that it is good
      enough to leave them in the message archive in Yahoo! Now, I realise
      how hard it is to scramble through the messages and put the pieces
      together.

      Hence, I have rebuilt the STrans page and starting with
      Maharahulovada Sutta, I will construct a word-by-word list of the
      sutta with its English enquivalent and our discussion and insights
      shared by members. The link is http://www.tipitaka.net/strans/

      Please give your comments on this, I think it is important to know
      what everyone has in mind regarding such a site, it is a brand new
      idea for a non-monastic and non-professional group!


      metta,
      Yong Peng.
    • Piya Tan
      Yong Peng, Since it is, for good reasons, you are unable to work with me, I will work with you instead. That is, I will try to fit the Tipitaka Community in
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 28, 2002
        Yong Peng,

        Since it is, for good reasons, you are unable to work with me, I will work with you
        instead. That is, I will try to fit the Tipitaka Community in with my own workload as
        much as I can. This would bring greater advantage for more people, that is, if we can
        pool our resources together.

        BTW in your Aggikkhandhopama Sutta, please note that the word is khandha (not
        khanda).

        Sukhi.

        P.

        "Ong Yong Peng " wrote:

        > Dear Piya, Nina and friends,
        >
        > after discussion with Piya (and the recent feedback from Nina), I
        > realised that it is important to organise the bits of our translation
        > work into a presentable and easily accessible form to serve as a
        > reference and study aid for others. I used to think that it is good
        > enough to leave them in the message archive in Yahoo! Now, I realise
        > how hard it is to scramble through the messages and put the pieces
        > together.
        >
        > Hence, I have rebuilt the STrans page and starting with
        > Maharahulovada Sutta, I will construct a word-by-word list of the
        > sutta with its English enquivalent and our discussion and insights
        > shared by members. The link is http://www.tipitaka.net/strans/
        >
        > Please give your comments on this, I think it is important to know
        > what everyone has in mind regarding such a site, it is a brand new
        > idea for a non-monastic and non-professional group!
        >
        > metta,
        > Yong Peng.
        >
        > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
        > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
        > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
        > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
        > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • nina van gorkom
        Dear Yong Peng, For me personally it is time consumung to go on webs, but maybe for the others? My access is so slow. And so difficult to find the time. I
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
          Dear Yong Peng,
          For me personally it is time consumung to go on webs, but maybe for the
          others? My access is so slow. And so difficult to find the time. I prefer E
          mail, printing out and looking at texts.
          I have another idea too, but do not know whether it is suitable for
          beginning students, but I am also beginning. It is so difficult to
          understand a sutta without commentary. What about reading a few paras of the
          sutta and then after that its commentary and subcommentary, relating to the
          sutta passage, bit by bit. Then going on again with sutta and so on.
          Commentary may seem too difficult at first but once one starts diffiulties
          can be overcome. What do you think?
          Nina.

          op 28-12-2002 04:23 schreef Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@...> op
          ypong001@...:

          > Hence, I have rebuilt the STrans page and starting with
          > Maharahulovada Sutta, I will construct a word-by-word list of the
          > sutta with its English enquivalent and our discussion and insights
          > shared by members. The link is http://www.tipitaka.net/strans/
        • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
          Dear Piya and friends, I am very grateful for your help. In fact, I am willing to collaborate with anyone who would be able to help in the dhamma work for
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
            Dear Piya and friends,

            I am very grateful for your help. In fact, I am willing to
            collaborate with anyone who would be able to help in the dhamma work
            for Tipitaka Network. Developing it into an online community requires
            both participants as well as architects who design, built, manage and
            maintain the community.

            I am also grateful to those who have corresponded with me and
            provided help in private. Thank you very much.

            I will be very grateful if more people with the relevant knowledge
            and skills will come forward and offer their assistance as a form of
            dana, not just to the Buddhist community, but to reach out to the
            world. The knowledge and skills require include: good knowledge of
            Buddhism, Sutta studies, Pali knowledge, web programming, web design,
            CG graphics and animation, multimedia.

            I agree with Piya that more people and resources is an advantage.
            It's certainly better than me working alone now. If you are able to
            help in any area, please email me at ypong001@...

            The approach that I take for Tipitaka Network is not an all-out
            aggressive one because I don't really like to be evangelical.
            However, there are truly a lot of things I would like to do for
            Tipitaka Network.

            Sutta Translation will remain as an ongoing activity. At the same
            time PALI, PCD and PGT also needs to be expanded and updated.

            If you have an interesting topic to write about, you can also
            contribute your article to

            1. The Pali Companion: on the history, development, linguistics of
            pali language http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/companion/

            2. B-Cube: short articles (1000-2000 words) on basic Buddhism,
            Buddhist topics, personal experience/testimony, comparative religion
            http://www.tipitaka.net/b-cube/

            3. Long essays: http://www.tipitaka.net/ebooks/

            4. Sutta studies and research: http://www.tipitaka.net/study

            5. Buddhist history: http://www.tipitaka.net/moments

            Piya, kindly share the plans you have in mind. I'm sure we can work
            out something that is mutually agreeable and beneficial.

            As for the word, do you mean it should be spelt Aggikkhandhapama, or
            are you referring to something else? Please advise.

            Thank you.

            metta,
            Yong Peng.

            --- Piya Tan wrote:
            > Since it is, for good reasons, you are unable to work with me, I
            will work with you instead. That is, I will try to fit the Tipitaka
            Community in with my own workload as much as I can. This would bring
            greater advantage for more people, that is, if we can pool our
            resources together.
            >
            > BTW in your Aggikkhandhopama Sutta, please note that the word is
            khandha (not khanda).
          • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
            Dear Nina and friends, please do not worry, the sutta translation activity will carry out as it is through e-mail. What I will be putting up under the strans
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 30, 2002
              Dear Nina and friends,

              please do not worry, the sutta translation activity will carry out as
              it is through e-mail. What I will be putting up under the strans site
              is to organise all the many emails we generated into a more
              presentable form for further study, revision, or research. That will
              save a person time from searching through the mail archive at Yahoo!

              I understand about the slow connection members are facing, and that
              is why I am quite hesitant to put more graphics on the webpages.

              I like your idea of referring to the commentary and subcommentary
              when doing the sutta translation. I think it is necessary for a
              perfect translation. Referring to the comm. and subs retain the
              lineage as well as provide insights and contextual information which
              we may not be aware of. It is really important. But I can't really
              commit to it because I have never read any commentary before, and I
              can only consider to be proficient in English and Chinese so I may
              have problems with them. :-)

              However, if you can commit your time and knowledge, then yes, let's
              go ahead with it. What do you suggest we start with? Can you also
              provide some background on the commentaries and subcommentaries?

              Thank you.

              metta,
              Yong Peng.

              --- nina van gorkom wrote:
              > For me personally it is time consumung to go on webs, but maybe for
              the others? My access is so slow. And so difficult to find the time.
              I prefer E mail, printing out and looking at texts.
              > I have another idea too, but do not know whether it is suitable for
              beginning students, but I am also beginning. It is so difficult to
              understand a sutta without commentary. What about reading a few paras
              of the sutta and then after that its commentary and subcommentary,
              relating to the sutta passage, bit by bit. Then going on again with
              sutta and so on.
              > Commentary may seem too difficult at first but once one starts
              diffiulties can be overcome. What do you think?
            • Piya Tan
              Yong Peng, Good to see the Tipitaka Website growing and I will do what I can. The sutta title should be: Aggikkhandhopama Sutta Sukhi. P.
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 30, 2002
                Yong Peng,

                Good to see the Tipitaka Website growing and I will do what I can.

                The sutta title should be:

                Aggikkhandhopama Sutta

                Sukhi.

                P.

                "Ong Yong Peng " wrote:

                > Dear Piya and friends,
                >
                > I am very grateful for your help. In fact, I am willing to
                > collaborate with anyone who would be able to help in the dhamma work
                > for Tipitaka Network. Developing it into an online community requires
                > both participants as well as architects who design, built, manage and
                > maintain the community.
                >
                > I am also grateful to those who have corresponded with me and
                > provided help in private. Thank you very much.
                >
                > I will be very grateful if more people with the relevant knowledge
                > and skills will come forward and offer their assistance as a form of
                > dana, not just to the Buddhist community, but to reach out to the
                > world. The knowledge and skills require include: good knowledge of
                > Buddhism, Sutta studies, Pali knowledge, web programming, web design,
                > CG graphics and animation, multimedia.
                >
                > I agree with Piya that more people and resources is an advantage.
                > It's certainly better than me working alone now. If you are able to
                > help in any area, please email me at ypong001@...
                >
                > The approach that I take for Tipitaka Network is not an all-out
                > aggressive one because I don't really like to be evangelical.
                > However, there are truly a lot of things I would like to do for
                > Tipitaka Network.
                >
                > Sutta Translation will remain as an ongoing activity. At the same
                > time PALI, PCD and PGT also needs to be expanded and updated.
                >
                > If you have an interesting topic to write about, you can also
                > contribute your article to
                >
                > 1. The Pali Companion: on the history, development, linguistics of
                > pali language http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/companion/
                >
                > 2. B-Cube: short articles (1000-2000 words) on basic Buddhism,
                > Buddhist topics, personal experience/testimony, comparative religion
                > http://www.tipitaka.net/b-cube/
                >
                > 3. Long essays: http://www.tipitaka.net/ebooks/
                >
                > 4. Sutta studies and research: http://www.tipitaka.net/study
                >
                > 5. Buddhist history: http://www.tipitaka.net/moments
                >
                > Piya, kindly share the plans you have in mind. I'm sure we can work
                > out something that is mutually agreeable and beneficial.
                >
                > As for the word, do you mean it should be spelt Aggikkhandhapama, or
                > are you referring to something else? Please advise.
                >
                > Thank you.
                >
                > metta,
                > Yong Peng.
                >
                > --- Piya Tan wrote:
                > > Since it is, for good reasons, you are unable to work with me, I
                > will work with you instead. That is, I will try to fit the Tipitaka
                > Community in with my own workload as much as I can. This would bring
                > greater advantage for more people, that is, if we can pool our
                > resources together.
                > >
                > > BTW in your Aggikkhandhopama Sutta, please note that the word is
                > khandha (not khanda).
                >
                > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Piya Tan
                Yong Peng, It s great to have Nyanaponika s Word of the Buddha online. If you could add a Download Button (that is, one button to download the whole file) it
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 30, 2002
                  Yong Peng,

                  It's great to have Nyanaponika's Word of the Buddha online.

                  If you could add a Download Button (that is, one button to download the whole file)
                  it would help many who would like to read it offline.

                  Sukhi.

                  P.

                  "Ong Yong Peng " wrote:

                  > Dear Piya and friends,
                  >
                  > I am very grateful for your help. In fact, I am willing to
                  > collaborate with anyone who would be able to help in the dhamma work
                  > for Tipitaka Network. Developing it into an online community requires
                  > both participants as well as architects who design, built, manage and
                  > maintain the community.
                  >
                  > I am also grateful to those who have corresponded with me and
                  > provided help in private. Thank you very much.
                  >
                  > I will be very grateful if more people with the relevant knowledge
                  > and skills will come forward and offer their assistance as a form of
                  > dana, not just to the Buddhist community, but to reach out to the
                  > world. The knowledge and skills require include: good knowledge of
                  > Buddhism, Sutta studies, Pali knowledge, web programming, web design,
                  > CG graphics and animation, multimedia.
                  >
                  > I agree with Piya that more people and resources is an advantage.
                  > It's certainly better than me working alone now. If you are able to
                  > help in any area, please email me at ypong001@...
                  >
                  > The approach that I take for Tipitaka Network is not an all-out
                  > aggressive one because I don't really like to be evangelical.
                  > However, there are truly a lot of things I would like to do for
                  > Tipitaka Network.
                  >
                  > Sutta Translation will remain as an ongoing activity. At the same
                  > time PALI, PCD and PGT also needs to be expanded and updated.
                  >
                  > If you have an interesting topic to write about, you can also
                  > contribute your article to
                  >
                  > 1. The Pali Companion: on the history, development, linguistics of
                  > pali language http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/companion/
                  >
                  > 2. B-Cube: short articles (1000-2000 words) on basic Buddhism,
                  > Buddhist topics, personal experience/testimony, comparative religion
                  > http://www.tipitaka.net/b-cube/
                  >
                  > 3. Long essays: http://www.tipitaka.net/ebooks/
                  >
                  > 4. Sutta studies and research: http://www.tipitaka.net/study
                  >
                  > 5. Buddhist history: http://www.tipitaka.net/moments
                  >
                  > Piya, kindly share the plans you have in mind. I'm sure we can work
                  > out something that is mutually agreeable and beneficial.
                  >
                  > As for the word, do you mean it should be spelt Aggikkhandhapama, or
                  > are you referring to something else? Please advise.
                  >
                  > Thank you.
                  >
                  > metta,
                  > Yong Peng.
                  >
                  > --- Piya Tan wrote:
                  > > Since it is, for good reasons, you are unable to work with me, I
                  > will work with you instead. That is, I will try to fit the Tipitaka
                  > Community in with my own workload as much as I can. This would bring
                  > greater advantage for more people, that is, if we can pool our
                  > resources together.
                  > >
                  > > BTW in your Aggikkhandhopama Sutta, please note that the word is
                  > khandha (not khanda).
                  >
                  > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                  > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                  > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                  > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                  > [Mailing List] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali
                  > [Discussion] http://www.tipitaka.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • nina van gorkom
                  Dear Yong Peng, op 30-12-2002 09:04 schreef Ong Yong Peng op ... really ... Nina: I feel I am dependent on the knowledge of experts here.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 31, 2002
                    Dear Yong Peng,

                    op 30-12-2002 09:04 schreef Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@...> op
                    ypong001@...:

                    > I like your idea of referring to the commentary and subcommentary
                    > when doing the sutta translation.... It is really important. But I can't
                    really
                    > commit to it because I have never read any commentary before...
                    > However, if you can commit your time and knowledge, then yes, let's
                    > go ahead with it. What do you suggest we start with? Can you also
                    > provide some background on the commentaries and subcommentaries?

                    Nina: I feel I am dependent on the knowledge of experts here. For myself I
                    just started to read here and there parts of commentaries, struggling, but
                    it is very valuable, even when reading a little. I wonder whether
                    Buddhaghosa's Commentary to Mahaaraahulovaadasutta sutta, the
                    Papa~casuudanii, could be given here part by part. Or just some parts which
                    directly relate to the lines we are reading. If this is complicated I am
                    going to order the Pali text for myself and study it. I have the Thai
                    translation of the commentary to back me up. Meanwhile I could add some info
                    from this Thai co.
                    Historical background, this is more for those knowledgeable in history. See
                    Visuddhimagga, tr by Nyaa.namoli. Also: The Life and work of Buddhaghosa, by
                    B.C. Law, Pilgrims Books, Delhi, ISBN 81-7624-054-0. It is very good.
                    As to subcommentary, Tiika, Aacariya Dhammapaala, what little I read, I just
                    find very interesting and helpful.
                    I do not take much to history, I find it more convincing to read the texts.
                    Then we can see Buddhaghosa's devotion to preserving the integrity of the
                    teachings, his insistance on vipassanaa pa~n~naa, understanding the
                    khandhas, dhaatus, ayatanas.

                    I am sorry I cannot be of much help,
                    Nina.

                    P.S. For John and Gabriel: the prefix upa in upakilesa: in my Pali Thai
                    dictionary upa can mean: entering into . The dhamma by which one enters into
                    what is impure. Or the object that appears to the citta and conditions citta
                    to be impure with covetousness etc.
                  • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
                    Dear Piya and friends, thanks again. As for Ven. Nyanaponika s WOB, there used to be a downloadable MS Word document (if I am not mistaken). However, it seems
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 1, 2003
                      Dear Piya and friends,

                      thanks again. As for Ven. Nyanaponika's WOB, there used to be a
                      downloadable MS Word document (if I am not mistaken). However, it
                      seems to be gone or lost in cyberspace.

                      I will generate a PDF file for it and put it under the file section.

                      metta,
                      Yong Peng.

                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan wrote:
                      > It's great to have Nyanaponika's Word of the Buddha online.
                      > If you could add a Download Button (that is, one button to download
                      the whole file) it would help many who would like to read it offline.
                    • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
                      Dear Nina and friends, thanks for the info. For the sutta translation, let s take a step at a time. For your comments on Buddhaghosa, I share similar respect
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 1, 2003
                        Dear Nina and friends,

                        thanks for the info. For the sutta translation, let's take a step at
                        a time. For your comments on Buddhaghosa, I share similar respect for
                        him and his works. In fact, one of the main reason I learn pali is to
                        be able to read many pali texts (such as Buddhaghosa's) not yet
                        available in English, and since I do not know Thai, Sinhala and
                        Burmese, it will be best to learn pali.

                        metta,
                        Yong Peng.

                        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, nina van gorkom wrote:
                        > I do not take much to history, I find it more convincing to read
                        the texts. Then we can see Buddhaghosa's devotion to preserving the
                        integrity of the teachings, his insistance on vipassanaa pa~n~naa,
                        understanding the khandhas, dhaatus, ayatanas.
                      • Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@yahoo.com>
                        Dear Piya and friends, my mistake, it should be a pdf file, and I actually have it on my harddisk. I rediscover it while I clean up and backup my files this
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 14, 2003
                          Dear Piya and friends,

                          my mistake, it should be a pdf file, and I actually have it on my
                          harddisk. I rediscover it while I clean up and backup my files this
                          afternoon. I have zipped and uploaded the file here:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/files/wordofbuddha.zip

                          I am not sure where I got it from, there is no information in the
                          file except that the authors are David & Marian Cortesi. It is also
                          not available at Buddhanet.

                          metta,
                          Yong Peng.

                          --- Ong Yong Peng wrote:
                          > thanks again. As for Ven. Nyanaponika's WOB, there used to be a
                          > downloadable MS Word document (if I am not mistaken). However, it
                          > seems to be gone or lost in cyberspace.
                          >
                          > I will generate a PDF file for it and put it under the file section.
                          >
                          > metta,
                          > Yong Peng.
                          >
                          > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan wrote:
                          > > It's great to have Nyanaponika's Word of the Buddha online.
                          > > If you could add a Download Button (that is, one button to
                          download
                          > the whole file) it would help many who would like to read it
                          offline.
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