Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: sevitabba

Expand Messages
  • palistudent
    Dear Bhante Kumara, I really don t think there is a single English word that sounds fluent in all the situations in the sutta. You might drive yourself crazy
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 27, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Bhante Kumara,

      I really don't think there is a single English word that sounds fluent in all the situations in the sutta. You might drive yourself crazy trying to find something. I suggest the following:
      People are to be associated with ...
      Things are to be used ...
      Places are to be resorted to ...

      With metta,
      John
      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Bryan, Lennart and everyone else,
      >
      > Yes, I do see that "sevati" is variously translated, and "to associate with" is probably the best known meaning for it, since in Mangala Sutta, there's "asevanaa ca baalaana.m, pa.n.ditaana~nca sevanaa".
      >
      > I'm trying to find a word that would someone fit into every context in Sevibbaasevitabba Sutta. If you have to choose only ONE English word to be used in EVERY instance in that sutta (and stick with it for the rest of your life!) which one would it be?
      >
      > kb
      >
      > Lennart Lopin wrote thus at 21:14 23/04/2011:
      > >Dear Bhante Kumara,
      > >
      > >In German its being translated sometimes as "Umgang pflegen" which is
      > >translated into English as "to associate/interact with someone/something".
      > >Great sutta btw,
      > >
      > >metta,
      > >Lennart
      > >
      > >On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...>wrote:
      > >
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Dear friends,
      > >>
      > >> How would you translated sevitabba?
      > >>
      > >> Before you reply, I suggest you have a look at Sevibbaasevitabba Sutta
      > >> (MN114), where it's probably used the most often in all of Pali texts. Ven
      > >> Bhikkhu Bodhi have it as to be cultivated, but it's rather odd to speak of
      > >> robes, almsfood, villages and towns that are to be cultivated!
      > >>
      > >> kb
      >
    • Kumara Bhikkhu
      Yes, I know. Haha! I love pushing the limits sometimes, sometimes with satisfactory results. But I assure you that I m more sober now. :-) You may have noticed
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 27, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Yes, I know. Haha! I love pushing the limits sometimes, sometimes with satisfactory results. But I assure you that I'm more sober now. :-)

        You may have noticed that PED provides 2 sets of meaning, and even if I were have to choose one from each, it would be tough.

        Anyway, I got initiated into this hunt when I was looking for a more suitable translation for this:

        "domanassa.mpaaha.m, devaanaminda, duvidhena vadaami sevitabbampi P , asevitabbampiiti. iti kho paneta.m vutta.m, ki~nceta.m pa.ticca vutta.m? tattha ya.m ja~n~naa domanassa.m `ima.m kho me domanassa.m sevato akusalaa dhammaa abhiva.d.dhanti, kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii'ti, evaruupa.m domanassa.m na sevitabba.m. tattha ya.m ja~n~naa domanassa.m `ima.m kho me domanassa.m sevato akusalaa dhammaa parihaayanti, kusalaa dhammaa abhiva.d.dhantii'ti, evaruupa.m domanassa.m sevitabba.m. tattha ya.m ce savitakka.m savicaara.m, ya.m ce avitakka.m avicaara.m, ye avitakke avicaare, te pa.niitatare. domanassa.mpaaha.m, devaanaminda, duvidhena vadaami sevitabbampi, asevitabbampii'ti iti ya.m ta.m vutta.m, idameta.m pa.ticca vutta.m.

        Ven Thanissaro translated it this way:

        "'Grief is of two sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? When one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this grief, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,' that sort of grief is not to be pursued. When one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this grief, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase,' that sort of grief is to be pursued. And this sort of grief may be accompanied by directed thought & evaluation or free of directed thought & evaluation. Of the two, the latter is the more refined. 'Grief is of two sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

        "To be pursued"? Eerr.... Not working in my mind. That's when I started to look for other occurrences and landed on Sevitabbaasevitabba Sutta.

        Domanassa (I prefer 'dejection' to 'grief') is not a person, not a place. "Thing" is the closest. So, would you say "to be used"? I've originally settled for "to be resorted to". Now I'm reconsidering "to be associated with", but it might not work well with some readers. Some out-of-the-box possibilities are "to be with", "to be acquainted with".

        FYI, I'm using this passage for an conversational essay I'm writing: "Have You Cried Lately? The Art & Science of Crying".

        Your help is much appreciated.

        kb

        palistudent wrote thus at 16:52 27/04/2011:
        >Dear Bhante Kumara,
        >
        >I really don't think there is a single English word that sounds fluent in all the situations in the sutta. You might drive yourself crazy trying to find something. I suggest the following:
        >People are to be associated with ...
        >Things are to be used ...
        >Places are to be resorted to ...
        >
        >With metta,
        >John
        >--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> Dear Bryan, Lennart and everyone else,
        >>
        >> Yes, I do see that "sevati" is variously translated, and "to associate with" is probably the best known meaning for it, since in Mangala Sutta, there's "asevanaa ca baalaana.m, pa.n.ditaana~nca sevanaa".
        >>
        >> I'm trying to find a word that would someone fit into every context in Sevibbaasevitabba Sutta. If you have to choose only ONE English word to be used in EVERY instance in that sutta (and stick with it for the rest of your life!) which one would it be?
        >>
        >> kb
        >>
        >> Lennart Lopin wrote thus at 21:14 23/04/2011:
        >> >Dear Bhante Kumara,
        >> >
        >> >In German its being translated sometimes as "Umgang pflegen" which is
        >> >translated into English as "to associate/interact with someone/something".
        >> >Great sutta btw,
        >> >
        >> >metta,
        >> >Lennart
        >> >
        >> >On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...>wrote:
        >> >
        >> >>
        >> >>
        >> >> Dear friends,
        >> >>
        >> >> How would you translated sevitabba?
        >> >>
        >> >> Before you reply, I suggest you have a look at Sevibbaasevitabba Sutta
        >> >> (MN114), where it's probably used the most often in all of Pali texts. Ven
        >> >> Bhikkhu Bodhi have it as to be cultivated, but it's rather odd to speak of
        >> >> robes, almsfood, villages and towns that are to be cultivated!
        >> >>
        >> >> kb
      • P G Dave
        In the present context, indulge works best. Thus: As I indulge this grief, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 29, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          In the present context, 'indulge' works best.

          Thus:

          'As I indulge this grief, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful
          mental qualities decline,' that sort of grief is not to be indulged. When
          one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I indulge this grief, unskillful mental
          qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase,' that sort of
          grief is to be indulged.

          hope this helps.

          much metta
          p
          ___________________________________________

          On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...>wrote:

          >
          >
          > Yes, I know. Haha! I love pushing the limits sometimes, sometimes with
          > satisfactory results. But I assure you that I'm more sober now. :-)
          >
          > You may have noticed that PED provides 2 sets of meaning, and even if I
          > were have to choose one from each, it would be tough.
          >
          > Anyway, I got initiated into this hunt when I was looking for a more
          > suitable translation for this:
          >
          > "domanassa.mpaaha.m, devaanaminda, duvidhena vadaami sevitabbampi P ,
          > asevitabbampiiti. iti kho paneta.m vutta.m, ki~nceta.m pa.ticca vutta.m?
          > tattha ya.m ja~n~naa domanassa.m `ima.m kho me domanassa.m sevato akusalaa
          > dhammaa abhiva.d.dhanti, kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii'ti, evaruupa.m
          > domanassa.m na sevitabba.m. tattha ya.m ja~n~naa domanassa.m `ima.m kho me
          > domanassa.m sevato akusalaa dhammaa parihaayanti, kusalaa dhammaa
          > abhiva.d.dhantii'ti, evaruupa.m domanassa.m sevitabba.m. tattha ya.m ce
          > savitakka.m savicaara.m, ya.m ce avitakka.m avicaara.m, ye avitakke
          > avicaare, te pa.niitatare. domanassa.mpaaha.m, devaanaminda, duvidhena
          > vadaami sevitabbampi, asevitabbampii'ti iti ya.m ta.m vutta.m, idameta.m
          > pa.ticca vutta.m.
          >
          > Ven Thanissaro translated it this way:
          >
          > "'Grief is of two sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.'
          > Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? When one knows of a
          > feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this grief, unskillful mental qualities
          > increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,' that sort of grief is not
          > to be pursued. When one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this
          > grief, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities
          > increase,' that sort of grief is to be pursued. And this sort of grief may
          > be accompanied by directed thought & evaluation or free of directed thought
          > & evaluation. Of the two, the latter is the more refined. 'Grief is of two
          > sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And
          > in reference to this was it said.
          >
          > "To be pursued"? Eerr.... Not working in my mind. That's when I started to
          > look for other occurrences and landed on Sevitabbaasevitabba Sutta.
          >
          > Domanassa (I prefer 'dejection' to 'grief') is not a person, not a place.
          > "Thing" is the closest. So, would you say "to be used"? I've originally
          > settled for "to be resorted to". Now I'm reconsidering "to be associated
          > with", but it might not work well with some readers. Some out-of-the-box
          > possibilities are "to be with", "to be acquainted with".
          >
          > FYI, I'm using this passage for an conversational essay I'm writing: "Have
          > You Cried Lately? The Art & Science of Crying".
          >
          > Your help is much appreciated.
          >
          > kb
          >
          > palistudent wrote thus at 16:52 27/04/2011:
          >
          > >Dear Bhante Kumara,
          > >
          > >I really don't think there is a single English word that sounds fluent in
          > all the situations in the sutta. You might drive yourself crazy trying to
          > find something. I suggest the following:
          > >People are to be associated with ...
          > >Things are to be used ...
          > >Places are to be resorted to ...
          > >
          > >With metta,
          > >John
          > >--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
          > >>
          > >> Dear Bryan, Lennart and everyone else,
          > >>
          > >> Yes, I do see that "sevati" is variously translated, and "to associate
          > with" is probably the best known meaning for it, since in Mangala Sutta,
          > there's "asevanaa ca baalaana.m, pa.n.ditaana~nca sevanaa".
          > >>
          > >> I'm trying to find a word that would someone fit into every context in
          > Sevibbaasevitabba Sutta. If you have to choose only ONE English word to be
          > used in EVERY instance in that sutta (and stick with it for the rest of your
          > life!) which one would it be?
          > >>
          > >> kb
          > >>
          > >> Lennart Lopin wrote thus at 21:14 23/04/2011:
          > >> >Dear Bhante Kumara,
          > >> >
          > >> >In German its being translated sometimes as "Umgang pflegen" which is
          > >> >translated into English as "to associate/interact with
          > someone/something".
          > >> >Great sutta btw,
          > >> >
          > >> >metta,
          > >> >Lennart
          > >> >
          > >> >On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@
          > ...>wrote:
          > >> >
          > >> >>
          > >> >>
          > >> >> Dear friends,
          > >> >>
          > >> >> How would you translated sevitabba?
          > >> >>
          > >> >> Before you reply, I suggest you have a look at Sevibbaasevitabba
          > Sutta
          > >> >> (MN114), where it's probably used the most often in all of Pali
          > texts. Ven
          > >> >> Bhikkhu Bodhi have it as to be cultivated, but it's rather odd to
          > speak of
          > >> >> robes, almsfood, villages and towns that are to be cultivated!
          > >> >>
          > >> >> kb
          >
          >
          >



          --
          may all be happy...
          WebRep
          Overall rating


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kumara Bhikkhu
          Thanks, P. Since indulge carries the meaning of gratify , maybe it s not so suitable. I m thinking along the lines of something more neutral. Thanks for the
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 29, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks, P. Since 'indulge' carries the meaning of 'gratify', maybe it's not so suitable. I'm thinking along the lines of something more neutral. Thanks for the suggestion anyway.

            kb

            P G Dave wrote thus at 21:25 29/04/2011:
            >In the present context, 'indulge' works best.
            >
            >Thus:
            >
            >'As I indulge this grief, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful
            >mental qualities decline,' that sort of grief is not to be indulged. When
            >one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I indulge this grief, unskillful mental
            >qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase,' that sort of
            >grief is to be indulged.
            >
            >hope this helps.
            >
            >much metta
            >p
            >___________________________________________
            >
            >On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...>wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> Yes, I know. Haha! I love pushing the limits sometimes, sometimes with
            >> satisfactory results. But I assure you that I'm more sober now. :-)
            >>
            >> You may have noticed that PED provides 2 sets of meaning, and even if I
            >> were have to choose one from each, it would be tough.
            >>
            >> Anyway, I got initiated into this hunt when I was looking for a more
            >> suitable translation for this:
            >>
            >> "domanassa.mpaaha.m, devaanaminda, duvidhena vadaami sevitabbampi P ,
            >> asevitabbampiiti. iti kho paneta.m vutta.m, ki~nceta.m pa.ticca vutta.m?
            >> tattha ya.m ja~n~naa domanassa.m `ima.m kho me domanassa.m sevato akusalaa
            >> dhammaa abhiva.d.dhanti, kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii'ti, evaruupa.m
            >> domanassa.m na sevitabba.m. tattha ya.m ja~n~naa domanassa.m `ima.m kho me
            >> domanassa.m sevato akusalaa dhammaa parihaayanti, kusalaa dhammaa
            >> abhiva.d.dhantii'ti, evaruupa.m domanassa.m sevitabba.m. tattha ya.m ce
            >> savitakka.m savicaara.m, ya.m ce avitakka.m avicaara.m, ye avitakke
            >> avicaare, te pa.niitatare. domanassa.mpaaha.m, devaanaminda, duvidhena
            >> vadaami sevitabbampi, asevitabbampii'ti iti ya.m ta.m vutta.m, idameta.m
            >> pa.ticca vutta.m.
            >>
            >> Ven Thanissaro translated it this way:
            >>
            >> "'Grief is of two sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.'
            >> Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? When one knows of a
            >> feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this grief, unskillful mental qualities
            >> increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,' that sort of grief is not
            >> to be pursued. When one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this
            >> grief, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities
            >> increase,' that sort of grief is to be pursued. And this sort of grief may
            >> be accompanied by directed thought & evaluation or free of directed thought
            >> & evaluation. Of the two, the latter is the more refined. 'Grief is of two
            >> sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And
            >> in reference to this was it said.
            >>
            >> "To be pursued"? Eerr.... Not working in my mind. That's when I started to
            >> look for other occurrences and landed on Sevitabbaasevitabba Sutta.
            >>
            >> Domanassa (I prefer 'dejection' to 'grief') is not a person, not a place.
            >> "Thing" is the closest. So, would you say "to be used"? I've originally
            >> settled for "to be resorted to". Now I'm reconsidering "to be associated
            >> with", but it might not work well with some readers. Some out-of-the-box
            >> possibilities are "to be with", "to be acquainted with".
            >>
            >> FYI, I'm using this passage for an conversational essay I'm writing: "Have
            >> You Cried Lately? The Art & Science of Crying".
            >>
            >> Your help is much appreciated.
            >>
            >> kb
          • pgd2507
            kb, If you said, indulged in , yes, that would mean to gratify. without the in , the meaning can have quite a different nuance. An example will help
            Message 5 of 10 , May 1, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              kb,

              If you said, "indulged in", yes, that would mean to gratify. without the "in", the meaning can have quite a different nuance.

              An example will help illustrate this:

              The young employee walked into the boss' office claiming he had a great idea. The boss impatiently said, "I have no time for everyone's 'great ideas'. I shall indulge you for 2 minutes and no more. So, be quick and speak to the point!"

              Another option, and perhaps more neutral one, that comes to mind is "attend to".

              with metta,
              pg
              ____________________________________

              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks, P. Since 'indulge' carries the meaning of 'gratify', maybe it's not so suitable. I'm thinking along the lines of something more neutral. Thanks for the suggestion anyway.
              >
              > kb
              >
              > P G Dave wrote thus at 21:25 29/04/2011:
              > >In the present context, 'indulge' works best.
              > >
              > >Thus:
              > >
              > >'As I indulge this grief, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful
              > >mental qualities decline,' that sort of grief is not to be indulged. When
              > >one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I indulge this grief, unskillful mental
              > >qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase,' that sort of
              > >grief is to be indulged.
              > >
              > >hope this helps.
              > >
              > >much metta
              > >p
              > >___________________________________________
              > >
              > >On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...>wrote:
              > >
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Yes, I know. Haha! I love pushing the limits sometimes, sometimes with
              > >> satisfactory results. But I assure you that I'm more sober now. :-)
              > >>
              > >> You may have noticed that PED provides 2 sets of meaning, and even if I
              > >> were have to choose one from each, it would be tough.
              > >>
              > >> Anyway, I got initiated into this hunt when I was looking for a more
              > >> suitable translation for this:
              > >>
              > >> "domanassa.mpaaha.m, devaanaminda, duvidhena vadaami sevitabbampi P ,
              > >> asevitabbampiiti. iti kho paneta.m vutta.m, ki~nceta.m pa.ticca vutta.m?
              > >> tattha ya.m ja~n~naa domanassa.m `ima.m kho me domanassa.m sevato akusalaa
              > >> dhammaa abhiva.d.dhanti, kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii'ti, evaruupa.m
              > >> domanassa.m na sevitabba.m. tattha ya.m ja~n~naa domanassa.m `ima.m kho me
              > >> domanassa.m sevato akusalaa dhammaa parihaayanti, kusalaa dhammaa
              > >> abhiva.d.dhantii'ti, evaruupa.m domanassa.m sevitabba.m. tattha ya.m ce
              > >> savitakka.m savicaara.m, ya.m ce avitakka.m avicaara.m, ye avitakke
              > >> avicaare, te pa.niitatare. domanassa.mpaaha.m, devaanaminda, duvidhena
              > >> vadaami sevitabbampi, asevitabbampii'ti iti ya.m ta.m vutta.m, idameta.m
              > >> pa.ticca vutta.m.
              > >>
              > >> Ven Thanissaro translated it this way:
              > >>
              > >> "'Grief is of two sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.'
              > >> Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? When one knows of a
              > >> feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this grief, unskillful mental qualities
              > >> increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,' that sort of grief is not
              > >> to be pursued. When one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this
              > >> grief, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities
              > >> increase,' that sort of grief is to be pursued. And this sort of grief may
              > >> be accompanied by directed thought & evaluation or free of directed thought
              > >> & evaluation. Of the two, the latter is the more refined. 'Grief is of two
              > >> sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And
              > >> in reference to this was it said.
              > >>
              > >> "To be pursued"? Eerr.... Not working in my mind. That's when I started to
              > >> look for other occurrences and landed on Sevitabbaasevitabba Sutta.
              > >>
              > >> Domanassa (I prefer 'dejection' to 'grief') is not a person, not a place.
              > >> "Thing" is the closest. So, would you say "to be used"? I've originally
              > >> settled for "to be resorted to". Now I'm reconsidering "to be associated
              > >> with", but it might not work well with some readers. Some out-of-the-box
              > >> possibilities are "to be with", "to be acquainted with".
              > >>
              > >> FYI, I'm using this passage for an conversational essay I'm writing: "Have
              > >> You Cried Lately? The Art & Science of Crying".
              > >>
              > >> Your help is much appreciated.
              > >>
              > >> kb
              >
            • Kumara Bhikkhu
              Hmm.... wonder if that might be a humorous usage, which may have become normal where you live. Attend to sounds reasonable. I ll consider it. Thanks!
              Message 6 of 10 , May 2, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Hmm.... wonder if that might be a humorous usage, which may have become normal where you live. "Attend to" sounds reasonable. I'll consider it. Thanks!

                pgd2507 wrote thus at 17:33 01/05/2011:
                >kb,
                >
                >If you said, "indulged in", yes, that would mean to gratify. without the "in", the meaning can have quite a different nuance.
                >
                >An example will help illustrate this:
                >
                >The young employee walked into the boss' office claiming he had a great idea. The boss impatiently said, "I have no time for everyone's 'great ideas'. I shall indulge you for 2 minutes and no more. So, be quick and speak to the point!"
                >
                >Another option, and perhaps more neutral one, that comes to mind is "attend to".
                >
                >with metta,
                >pg
                >____________________________________
                >
                >--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> Thanks, P. Since 'indulge' carries the meaning of 'gratify', maybe it's not so suitable. I'm thinking along the lines of something more neutral. Thanks for the suggestion anyway.
                >>
                >> kb
                >>
                >> P G Dave wrote thus at 21:25 29/04/2011:
                >> >In the present context, 'indulge' works best.
                >> >
                >> >Thus:
                >> >
                >> >'As I indulge this grief, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful
                >> >mental qualities decline,' that sort of grief is not to be indulged. When
                >> >one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I indulge this grief, unskillful mental
                >> >qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase,' that sort of
                >> >grief is to be indulged.
                >> >
                >> >hope this helps.
                >> >
                >> >much metta
                >> >p
                >> >___________________________________________
                >> >
                >> >On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...>wrote:
                >> >
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >> Yes, I know. Haha! I love pushing the limits sometimes, sometimes with
                >> >> satisfactory results. But I assure you that I'm more sober now. :-)
                >> >>
                >> >> You may have noticed that PED provides 2 sets of meaning, and even if I
                >> >> were have to choose one from each, it would be tough.
                >> >>
                >> >> Anyway, I got initiated into this hunt when I was looking for a more
                >> >> suitable translation for this:
                >> >>
                >> >> "domanassa.mpaaha.m, devaanaminda, duvidhena vadaami sevitabbampi P ,
                >> >> asevitabbampiiti. iti kho paneta.m vutta.m, ki~nceta.m pa.ticca vutta.m?
                >> >> tattha ya.m ja~n~naa domanassa.m `ima.m kho me domanassa.m sevato akusalaa
                >> >> dhammaa abhiva.d.dhanti, kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii'ti, evaruupa.m
                >> >> domanassa.m na sevitabba.m. tattha ya.m ja~n~naa domanassa.m `ima.m kho me
                >> >> domanassa.m sevato akusalaa dhammaa parihaayanti, kusalaa dhammaa
                >> >> abhiva.d.dhantii'ti, evaruupa.m domanassa.m sevitabba.m. tattha ya.m ce
                >> >> savitakka.m savicaara.m, ya.m ce avitakka.m avicaara.m, ye avitakke
                >> >> avicaare, te pa.niitatare. domanassa.mpaaha.m, devaanaminda, duvidhena
                >> >> vadaami sevitabbampi, asevitabbampii'ti iti ya.m ta.m vutta.m, idameta.m
                >> >> pa.ticca vutta.m.
                >> >>
                >> >> Ven Thanissaro translated it this way:
                >> >>
                >> >> "'Grief is of two sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.'
                >> >> Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? When one knows of a
                >> >> feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this grief, unskillful mental qualities
                >> >> increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,' that sort of grief is not
                >> >> to be pursued. When one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this
                >> >> grief, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities
                >> >> increase,' that sort of grief is to be pursued. And this sort of grief may
                >> >> be accompanied by directed thought & evaluation or free of directed thought
                >> >> & evaluation. Of the two, the latter is the more refined. 'Grief is of two
                >> >> sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And
                >> >> in reference to this was it said.
                >> >>
                >> >> "To be pursued"? Eerr.... Not working in my mind. That's when I started to
                >> >> look for other occurrences and landed on Sevitabbaasevitabba Sutta.
                >> >>
                >> >> Domanassa (I prefer 'dejection' to 'grief') is not a person, not a place.
                >> >> "Thing" is the closest. So, would you say "to be used"? I've originally
                >> >> settled for "to be resorted to". Now I'm reconsidering "to be associated
                >> >> with", but it might not work well with some readers. Some out-of-the-box
                >> >> possibilities are "to be with", "to be acquainted with".
                >> >>
                >> >> FYI, I'm using this passage for an conversational essay I'm writing: "Have
                >> >> You Cried Lately? The Art & Science of Crying".
                >> >>
                >> >> Your help is much appreciated.
                >> >>
                >> >> kb
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------
                >
                >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                >Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                >[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                >[Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
                >[Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                >[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                >Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.