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Buddha-vacana

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  • thomaslaw03
    Dear Pali friends, What are the contents of Buddha-vacana (the teachings of Buddha) indicated in the Pali texts? Recently I read an article, Problem and
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 24, 2011
      Dear Pali friends,

      What are the contents of Buddha-vacana (the teachings of Buddha) indicated in the Pali texts?

      Recently I read an article, "Problem and Prospects of the Chinese Samyuktagama: Its Structure and Content" (by Choong Mun-keat). This article shows that according to the Bahubhumika of the Yogacarabhumi-sastra, Buddha-vacana should contain these nine topics:

      1. Five Aggregates, 2. Sense Spheres, 3. Causal Conditions, 4. Four Nutriments, 5. Four Truths, 6. Dhatus, 7. Buddha & Sravakas, 8. Four Stations of Minfulness, etc., of the bodhipaksya-dharmas, and 9. Eight Assembles.

      Although most of these topics are also the major teachings (of the Buddha) found in the Pali suttas and Abhidhammas, the Pali tradition may not have the same contents for the term, Buddha-vacana. Are there any explanations or definitions of Buddha-vacana indicated in the Pali texts?

      Thank you for your advice.

      Sincerely,

      Thomas Law
    • Dhammadarsa
      Kind Sir Yours is a very important question, but one not so easy to answer. The Buddha seems to have predicted that his teaching would get lost. This seems to
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 28, 2011
        Kind Sir



        Yours is a very important question, but one not so easy to answer.



        The Buddha seems to have predicted that his teaching would get lost. This
        seems to be wise and in accordance with the teaching that all conditioned
        things [not ALL THINGS] are impermanent. [Buddhasasana and Tipitaka are
        conditioned things, where Dhamma would not be.] Such a prediction may have
        been given by other [unenlightened] teachers too.



        What is amazing to me, is that the Buddha also gave general and specific
        advice to deal with and prevent that situation. That is truly the behaviour
        of not only a wise teacher, but a compassionate one.



        Examples of general advice are:

        -The Kalama sutta - for those who do not yet have faith in the Buddha.

        And for those that already have such faith:

        -"Make a thorough investigation." M 56 : M i 379

        -If someone claims this is the Buddha's teaching, compare it with Sutta and
        Vinaya. http://www.thisismyanmar.com/nibbana/tipitaka/mahapri3.htm [see the
        first sutta after the index]

        -The two companies. A 2.5.6 : A i 72-73
        http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an02/an02.046.than.html

        -The drum pegs. S 20.7 : S ii 266-7
        http://www.cambodianbuddhist.org/english/website/canon/sutta/samyutta/sn20-0
        07.html, note that "words of disciples" are mentioned, of course the
        commentary explains that as "disciples of other teachers" because the
        commentator wants people to listen to him! LOL



        The specific advice can be found at:

        The Paasaadika Discourse D 29 : D iii 127:

        "... All you to whom I have taught these truths that I have realised by
        super-knowledge should come together and recite them, setting meaning beside
        meaning and expression beside expression, without dissension, in order that
        this holy life may continue and be established for a long time for the
        profit and happiness of the many..." Then the text has the 37 Wings of
        Enlightenment, but the Anapanasati sutta has the Buddha compare that
        teaching [which is not mentioned in the 37] with the 4 Foundations of
        Mindfulness [which is mentioned in the 37]. This seems to show that he
        didn't mean to limit the study to those 37. [Note that this is the Buddha's
        instruction to hold Sa.mgiiti or Sa.ngaayana. I do not know if monks have
        followed this advice when they had their Councils for reviewing the
        teaching.]



        This specific advice seems to be the key to identify corruptions in the
        teaching, which is impermanent and going to slowly decay/be corrupted. By
        following this advice one can see how different suttas fill in the
        blanks/gaps of other suttas [which are said to have been taught to people at
        different stages of development] and how every authentic discourse of the
        Buddha is a version of Dependent Origination. Thus the quote: "He who sees
        Dependent Origination, sees Dhamma." [Paali MN 28 : PTS M i 191 : Chinese MA
        30] Comes to life.



        I believe it is only in follow such instructions from the Buddha that one
        can know what is Buddhavacana. Those who disagree, of course, can do so, but
        without testing that advice they would be doing so from theory [taking their
        theory as truth, which would be against the Kalama Sutta teaching].



        Kind Regards







        <http://www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa> Integrating Emotion and Intellect =
        Intelligence




        Dhammadarsa [Darsa] Bhikkhu
        Buddhist Monk

        Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya University
        Wang Noi
        Ayuthaya
        Thailand


        <http://www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa> www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa


        mobile:

        +66850941669





        <https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=210453914412&src=client_sig_212_1_card_join&
        invite=1&lang=en> Always have my latest info

        <http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig&lang=en> Want
        a signature like this?





        From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        thomaslaw03
        Sent: Tuesday, 25 January 2011 10:17 AM
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Pali] Buddha-vacana





        Dear Pali friends,

        What are the contents of Buddha-vacana (the teachings of Buddha) indicated
        in the Pali texts?

        Recently I read an article, "Problem and Prospects of the Chinese
        Samyuktagama: Its Structure and Content" (by Choong Mun-keat). This article
        shows that according to the Bahubhumika of the Yogacarabhumi-sastra,
        Buddha-vacana should contain these nine topics:

        1. Five Aggregates, 2. Sense Spheres, 3. Causal Conditions, 4. Four
        Nutriments, 5. Four Truths, 6. Dhatus, 7. Buddha & Sravakas, 8. Four
        Stations of Minfulness, etc., of the bodhipaksya-dharmas, and 9. Eight
        Assembles.

        Although most of these topics are also the major teachings (of the Buddha)
        found in the Pali suttas and Abhidhammas, the Pali tradition may not have
        the same contents for the term, Buddha-vacana. Are there any explanations or
        definitions of Buddha-vacana indicated in the Pali texts?

        Thank you for your advice.

        Sincerely,

        Thomas Law





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dhammadarsa
        Kind Sir Could you tell me where I could get a copy of Problem and Prospects of the Chinese Samyuktagama: Its Structure and Content (by Choong Mun-keat). I
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 29, 2011
          Kind Sir



          Could you tell me where I could get a copy of "Problem and Prospects of the
          Chinese Samyuktagama: Its Structure and Content" (by Choong Mun-keat).



          I have his PhD thesis. I studied my BA at the same university as he.



          Kind Regards







          <http://www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa> Integrating Emotion and Intellect =
          Intelligence




          Dhammadarsa [Darsa] Bhikkhu
          Buddhist Monk

          Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya University
          Wang Noi
          Ayuthaya
          Thailand


          <http://www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa> www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa


          mobile:

          +66850941669





          <https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=210453914412&src=client_sig_212_1_card_join&
          invite=1&lang=en> Always have my latest info

          <http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig&lang=en> Want
          a signature like this?





          From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          thomaslaw03
          Sent: Tuesday, 25 January 2011 10:17 AM
          To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Pali] Buddha-vacana





          Dear Pali friends,

          What are the contents of Buddha-vacana (the teachings of Buddha) indicated
          in the Pali texts?

          Recently I read an article, "Problem and Prospects of the Chinese
          Samyuktagama: Its Structure and Content" (by Choong Mun-keat). This article
          shows that according to the Bahubhumika of the Yogacarabhumi-sastra,
          Buddha-vacana should contain these nine topics:

          1. Five Aggregates, 2. Sense Spheres, 3. Causal Conditions, 4. Four
          Nutriments, 5. Four Truths, 6. Dhatus, 7. Buddha & Sravakas, 8. Four
          Stations of Minfulness, etc., of the bodhipaksya-dharmas, and 9. Eight
          Assembles.

          Although most of these topics are also the major teachings (of the Buddha)
          found in the Pali suttas and Abhidhammas, the Pali tradition may not have
          the same contents for the term, Buddha-vacana. Are there any explanations or
          definitions of Buddha-vacana indicated in the Pali texts?

          Thank you for your advice.

          Sincerely,

          Thomas Law





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • thomaslaw03
          Dear Dhammadarsa Bhikkhu, Thank you very much for your reply on Buddha-vacana. Regarding his article I can email it as PDF to you. This is my email address:
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 29, 2011
            Dear Dhammadarsa Bhikkhu,

            Thank you very much for your reply on Buddha-vacana.

            Regarding his article I can email it as PDF to you. This is my email address: thomaslaw03@....

            Regards,

            Thomas Law
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