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Re: [Pali] Re: Question on Buddhaghosa's commentary

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  • Bryan Levman
    Dear Ven. Sakyaputtiya, Thanks very much for your suggestion. Yes, it appears that Buddaghosa is saying that Aananda spoke the Pabbajjaasutta and the Buddha
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 8, 2011
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      Dear Ven. Sakyaputtiya,

      Thanks very much for your suggestion. Yes, it appears that Buddaghosa is saying that Aananda spoke the Pabbajjaasutta and the Buddha himself spoke the padhaanasutta, although I don't understand how Aananda spoke the former sutta when the words are in the first person and the Buddha is actually talking. Your point about the commentary separating the suttas which were continuous also makes sense.

      Thanks very much for your help,

      Metta, Bryan



      --- On Fri, 1/7/11, sakyaputtiyo@... <sakyaputtiyo@...> wrote:

      From: sakyaputtiyo@... <sakyaputtiyo@...>
      Subject: [Pali] Re: QQuestion on
      Buddhaghosa's commentary
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Friday, January 7, 2011, 1:27 PM
















       











      Friend Bryan,

      the pabbajjaa sutta that comes before padhaana sutta records the words of Venerable AAnanda. "padhaanaaya gamissaami, ettha me ra~njatii mano" are the last words. It may be possible that at that very time, the Buddha would have thought the words recorded in padhaana sutta. Or it may be possible that these two suttas were connected with the string'padhaana' when the suttas were arranged.

      Moreover, you also have to consider how the pali texts were written on ancient days: without specific headings like today, without spaces in between suttas and words - they were continous letters written on palm leaves without almost no clue of full stops, reported speech, headings, sub-headings and so on. Only experts could really sort them out. If you see the ancient palm leaf version of the tipitaka, you will understand this point. I am inclined to accept the third view.



      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Levman <bryan.levman@...> wrote:

      >

      > Hi All,

      >

      > At the beginning of Buddhaghosa's commentary to the Padhaana sutta (Sutta

      > Nipaata 425-449), there is the following statement:

      >

      >

      > ta.m ma.m padhaanapahitatta nti [first words of the padhaana sutta]

      > padhaanasutta.m. kaa uppatti? ti aayasmaa aanando pabbajjaasutta.m ni.t.thaapesi. bhagavaa

      > gandhaku.tiya.m nisinno cintesi "mayaa chabbassaani padhaana.m patthayamaanena

      > dukkarakaarikaa kataa, ta.m ajja bhikkhuuna.m kathessaamii"ti. atha

      > gandhaku.tito nikkhamitvaa buddhaasane nisinno "ta.m ma.m padhaanapahitatta"nti

      > aarabhitvaa ima.m suttamabhaasi..

      >

      > Which I have tentatively translated as

      >

      > What is the source of the padhaanasutta?

      > “I will go in order to padhaana (meaning either "to abandon" or "to strive"); in

      > that matter

      >

      > my mind rejoices.” This was spoken by Rev. Ānanda

      > in completing the pabbajjaasutta (the previous sutta in the Sn). The Blessed

      > One,

      >

      > seated inside a perfumed hut, thought, “By wishing

      > to perform padhaana for six years I have done a

      > difficult thing; I will speak of this today to the

      > monks.” Then he left the perfumed hut, sat down

      > on the Buddha seat and began to preach this sutta

      > beginning with the words “ta.m ma.m

      > padhaanapahitattaṃ.”Does anyone know why Aananda would have completed the

      > pabbajjasutta? or am I translating this wrong?

      >

      > Any suggestions would be appreciated,

      >

      > Bryan

      >

      >

      >

      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      >





























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    • Bryan Levman
      Hi Dhivan, The first verse of the Pabbajjaa sutta does help to clarify, I missed that. Thanks very much for pointing this out - now my translation does indeed
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 11, 2011
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        Hi Dhivan,

        The first verse of the Pabbajjaa sutta does help to clarify, I missed that. Thanks very much for pointing this out - now my translation does indeed make sense,

        Metta, Bryan



        --- On Tue, 1/11/11, Dhivan Thomas Jones <thomas@...> wrote:

        From: Dhivan Thomas Jones <thomas@...>
        Subject: [Pali] Re: QQuestion on Buddhaghosa's commentary
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Received: Tuesday, January 11, 2011, 11:04 AM
















         









        Dear Brian,



        I've recently been working through the commentary to the Pabbajjaa Sutta and Padhaana Sutta myself. Just to add to the answer to your question already posted, the reason that the commentary says that Rev Aananda completed the Pabbajjaa Sutta is this. The Pabbajjaa Sutta begins: 'pabbajja.m kittayissaami yathaa pabbaji cakkhumaa' meaning 'I will describe how the one-with-vision [i.e. the Buddha] went forth'. The commentary understands the speaker here as being Aananda, in accordance with tradition. So the commentary regards the whole sutta as having been spoken by Aandanda. The last line would therefore have been spoken by Aananda, though he is quoting the Buddha.



        So I think your translation is quite correct!



        Best wishes

        Dhivan



























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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