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Re: [Pali] a.t.thahaakaarehi

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  • Bryan Levman
    Hi Nina, Thanks for this reference. I had not connected this with the four sakkaaya di.t.thi as the grammatical structure is somewhat different. In the
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 7, 2011
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      Hi Nina,

      Thanks for this reference. I had not connected this with the four sakkaaya
      di.t.thi as the grammatical structure is somewhat different.

      In the sakkaaya di.t.thi,

      ruupa.m attato samanupassati, ruupavanta.m vaa attaana.m, attani vaa ruupa.m,
      ruupasmi.m vaa attaana.m. (MN 1, 300)

      we have genitive, accusative, and two locatives whereas in MN 1 there is an
      accus., locative, ablative and accus. + gen. (pa.thavi.m ma~n~nati, pa.thaviyaa
      ma~n~nati, pa.thavito ma~n~nati, pa.thavi.m me'ti ma~n~nati) and no mention of
      the self which is interpolated by Venerable Bodhi in his translation.

      Thanks for pointing out these correspondences to me

      Metta, Bryan




      ________________________________
      From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 10:22:41 AM
      Subject: Re: [Pali] a.t.thahaakaarehi

      Dear Bryan,

      Op 6-jan-2011, om 18:03 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:

      > pa.thavi.m pa.thavito sa~njaanaati. Pa.thavi.m pa.thavito sa~n~natvaa
      > pa.thavi.m ma~n~nati pa.thaviyaa ma~n~nati pa.thavito ma~n~nati
      > pa.thavi.m me'ti
      > ma~n~nati.
      > Pa.thavi.m abhinandati.
      >
      > which I would translate as
      >
      > …from a perception of ‘earth’ he/she is aware of ‘earth’. Being
      > aware of earth
      > from the
      > percept, he/she deems the percept ‘earth’. He/she supposes
      > separation from earth
      > (pa,thavito);
      > he/she imagines ‘with reference to earth’; he/she thinks of earth
      > as ‘mine’.
      > He/she delights in earth.
      -------
      N: Ven. Bodhi translated this sutta and commentary: "The discourse on
      the Root of Existence". BPS.
      <Having perceived earth as earth, he conceives (himself as ) earth;
      he conceives (himself) in earth; he conceives (himself apart) from
      earth; he conceives 'earth is mine'...>
      These are actually the four ways of sakkaya di.t.thi pertaining to
      each of the five khandhas: thus, believing himself to be identical
      with the khandhas, as being contained in them, to be independent from
      them, to be their owner.
      ------
      Nina.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear Bryan, ... N You are right about the grammar. This sutta and commentaries deal with several ways of wrongly conceiving phenomena. One may conceive them
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 8, 2011
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        Dear Bryan,
        Op 7-jan-2011, om 17:18 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:

        > Thanks for this reference. I had not connected this with the four
        > sakkaaya
        > di.t.thi as the grammatical structure is somewhat different.
        >
        > In the sakkaaya di.t.thi,
        >
        > ruupa.m attato samanupassati, ruupavanta.m vaa attaana.m, attani
        > vaa ruupa.m,
        > ruupasmi.m vaa attaana.m. (MN 1, 300)
        >
        > we have genitive, accusative, and two locatives whereas in MN 1
        > there is an
        > accus., locative, ablative and accus. + gen. (pa.thavi.m ma~n~nati,
        > pa.thaviyaa
        > ma~n~nati, pa.thavito ma~n~nati, pa.thavi.m me'ti ma~n~nati) and no
        > mention of
        > the self which is interpolated by Venerable Bodhi in his translation.
        ------
        N You are right about the grammar. This sutta and commentaries deal
        with several ways of wrongly conceiving phenomena. One may conceive
        them with craving, with conceit and with wrong view. Ven. Bodhi has a
        long Intro. He translates co. and subco. :
        <He conceives (himself as ) earth (pa.thavi.m ma~n~nati)
        Co: Through the three conceivings he conceives "I am earth," "earth
        is mine", "another is earth", "earth belongs to another". ...>
        The subco: <..."I am earth": by this he shows the conceiving of views
        and the conceiving of conceit with an internal object, for this
        phrase implies adherence to a view of self (attaabhinivesa) or I-
        making (aha.mkara)....>
        I did not quote all, it is very long. There are many aspects to
        wrongly conceiving.

        ------
        Nina.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bryan Levman
        Hi Nina, Thanks very much Nina; I must study the commentary, but I don t believe there s any translation of it, so it s on my list of things to do, Metta,
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 8, 2011
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          Hi Nina,

          Thanks very much Nina; I must study the commentary, but I don't believe there's any translation of it, so it's on my list of things to do,

          Metta, Bryan



          --- On Sat, 1/8/11, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

          From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
          Subject: Re: [Pali] a.t.thahaakaarehi
          To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
          Received: Saturday, January 8, 2011, 2:45 PM
















           









          Dear Bryan,

          Op 7-jan-2011, om 17:18 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:



          > Thanks for this reference. I had not connected this with the four

          > sakkaaya

          > di.t.thi as the grammatical structure is somewhat different.

          >

          > In the sakkaaya di.t.thi,

          >

          > ruupa.m attato samanupassati, ruupavanta.m vaa attaana.m, attani

          > vaa ruupa.m,

          > ruupasmi.m vaa attaana.m. (MN 1, 300)

          >

          > we have genitive, accusative, and two locatives whereas in MN 1

          > there is an

          > accus., locative, ablative and accus. + gen. (pa.thavi.m ma~n~nati,

          > pa.thaviyaa

          > ma~n~nati, pa.thavito ma~n~nati, pa.thavi.m me'ti ma~n~nati) and no

          > mention of

          > the self which is interpolated by Venerable Bodhi in his translation.

          ------

          N You are right about the grammar. This sutta and commentaries deal

          with several ways of wrongly conceiving phenomena. One may conceive

          them with craving, with conceit and with wrong view. Ven. Bodhi has a

          long Intro. He translates co. and subco. :

          <He conceives (himself as ) earth (pa.thavi.m ma~n~nati)

          Co: Through the three conceivings he conceives "I am earth," "earth

          is mine", "another is earth", "earth belongs to another". ...>

          The subco: <..."I am earth": by this he shows the conceiving of views

          and the conceiving of conceit with an internal object, for this

          phrase implies adherence to a view of self (attaabhinivesa) or I-

          making (aha.mkara)....>

          I did not quote all, it is very long. There are many aspects to

          wrongly conceiving.



          ------

          Nina.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nina van Gorkom
          Dear Bryan, As mentioned, there is Ven. Bodhi translation of this sutta and commentary: The discourse on the Root of Existence . BPS. But I think only in hard
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 9, 2011
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            Dear Bryan,
            As mentioned, there is Ven. Bodhi translation of this sutta and
            commentary: "The discourse on
            the Root of Existence". BPS. But I think only in hard cover. I found
            this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_Publication_Society

            Nina.

            Op 8-jan-2011, om 23:52 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:

            > I must study the commentary, but I don't believe there's any
            > translation of it, so it's on my list of things to do,



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bryan Levman
            Dear Nina, Thanks for the reference. We don t have a copy in the library so I ll have to order it, but judging from his previous work I m sure it s very good,
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 9, 2011
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              Dear Nina,

              Thanks for the reference. We don't have a copy in the library so I'll have to order it, but judging from his previous work I'm sure it's very good,

              Metta, Bryan



              --- On Sun, 1/9/11, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

              From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
              Subject: Re: [Pali] a.t.thahaakaarehi
              To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
              Received: Sunday, January 9, 2011, 9:45 AM
















               









              Dear Bryan,

              As mentioned, there is Ven. Bodhi translation of this sutta and

              commentary: "The discourse on

              the Root of Existence". BPS. But I think only in hard cover. I found

              this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_Publication_Society



              Nina.



              Op 8-jan-2011, om 23:52 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:



              > I must study the commentary, but I don't believe there's any

              > translation of it, so it's on my list of things to do,



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Randy Graves
              I believe it s the fourth book at http://www.bps.lk/translationsfrompali.asp (BP-210S) also at
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 10, 2011
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                I believe it's the fourth book at
                http://www.bps.lk/translationsfrompali.asp (BP-210S)
                also at
                http://books.google.com/books?printsec=frontcover&id=Mia6JAaSb0AC#v=onepage&q&f=false

                Randy Graves

                On 1/9/2011 1:45 AM, Nina van Gorkom wrote:
                >
                > Dear Bryan,
                > As mentioned, there is Ven. Bodhi translation of this sutta and
                > commentary: "The discourse on
                > the Root of Existence". BPS. But I think only in hard cover. I found
                > this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_Publication_Society
                >
                > Nina.
                >
                > Op 8-jan-2011, om 23:52 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:
                >
                > > I must study the commentary, but I don't believe there's any
                > > translation of it, so it's on my list of things to do,
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bryan Levman
                Dear Randy and Nina, Thank you - I have found the book and ordered it from the Buddhist Publication Society, Metta, Bryan ... From: Randy Graves
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 11, 2011
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                  Dear Randy and Nina,

                  Thank you - I have found the book and ordered it from the Buddhist Publication Society,

                  Metta, Bryan



                  --- On Mon, 1/10/11, Randy Graves <rwgraves@...> wrote:

                  From: Randy Graves <rwgraves@...>
                  Subject: Re: [Pali] a.t.thahaakaarehi
                  To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                  Cc: "Nina van Gorkom" <vangorko@...>
                  Received: Monday, January 10, 2011, 5:12 PM
















                   









                  I believe it's the fourth book at

                  http://www.bps.lk/translationsfrompali.asp (BP-210S)

                  also at

                  http://books.google.com/books?printsec=frontcover&id=Mia6JAaSb0AC#v=onepage&q&f=false



                  Randy Graves



                  On 1/9/2011 1:45 AM, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

                  >

                  > Dear Bryan,

                  > As mentioned, there is Ven. Bodhi translation of this sutta and

                  > commentary: "The discourse on

                  > the Root of Existence". BPS. But I think only in hard cover. I found

                  > this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_Publication_Society

                  >

                  > Nina.

                  >

                  > Op 8-jan-2011, om 23:52 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:

                  >

                  > > I must study the commentary, but I don't believe there's any

                  > > translation of it, so it's on my list of things to do,

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >

                  >



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