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AN2.4 Samacitta Vagga (4)

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Nina and friends, Nina, thank you for your previous corrections and suggestions. ... 35. Atha kho a~n~nataro braahma.no yena bhagavaa tenupasa`nkami;
    Message 1 of 46 , Dec 31, 2010
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      Dear Nina and friends,

      Nina, thank you for your previous corrections and suggestions.

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      35. Atha kho a~n~nataro braahma.no yena bhagavaa tenupasa`nkami; upasa`nkamitvaa bhagavataa saddhi.m sammodi. Sammodaniiya.m katha.m ...pe... ekamanta.m nisinno kho so braahma.no bhagavanta.m etadavoca - "ki.mvaadii bhava.m gotamo kimakkhaayii"ti? "Kiriyavaadii caaha.m, braahma.na, akiriyavaadii caa"ti. "Yathaakatha.m pana bhava.m gotamo kiriyavaadii ca akiriyavaadii caa"ti?

      "Akiriya.m kho aha.m, braahma.na, vadaami kaayaduccaritassa vaciiduccaritassa manoduccaritassa, anekavihitaana.m paapakaana.m akusalaana.m dhammaana.m akiriya.m vadaami. Kiriya~nca kho aha.m, braahma.na, vadaami kaayasucaritassa vaciisucaritassa manosucaritassa, anekavihitaana.m kusalaana.m dhammaana.m kiriya.m vadaami. Eva.m kho aha.m, braahma.na, kiriyavaadii ca akiriyavaadii caa"ti.

      "Abhikkanta.m, bho gotama ...pe... upaasaka.m ma.m bhava.m gotamo dhaaretu ajjatagge paa.nupeta.m sara.na.m gata"nti.

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      Atha kho a~n~nataro braahma.no yena bhagavaa tenupasa`nkami;
      and then / certain / brahmin / where / Blessed One / there-approached
      And then, a certain brahmin approached there (the place) where the Blessed One (was staying);

      atha kho (phrase) and then.
      a~n~natara (adj) certain.
      braahma.na (m) brahmin.
      yena ... tena (correlation) where ... there.
      tenupasa`nkami = tena upasa`nkami.
      upasa`nkamati (v) approaches.

      upasa`nkamitvaa bhagavataa saddhi.m sammodi.
      having approached / Blessed One / with / exchanged friendly greeting with
      upon arrival, (he) exchanged friendly greeting with the Blessed One.

      sammodati (v) exchanges friendly greeting with.

      Sammodaniiya.m katha.m ...pe... ekamanta.m nisinno kho so braahma.no bhagavanta.m etadavoca -
      having exchanged greetings of friendliness and courtesy / on one side / seated / indeed / that / brahmin / to Blessed One / this-said
      Having exchanged greetings of friendliness and courtesy, seated on one side indeed, that brahmin said this to the Blessed One -

      Sammodaniiya.m katha.m ...pe... [note] This refers to the stock phrase "Sammodaniiya.m katha.m saara.niiya.m viitisaaretvaa ekamanta.m nisiidi."
      ekamanta.m (adv) on one side.
      nisinna (pp of nisiidati) seated.

      "ki.mvaadii bhava.m gotamo kimakkhaayii"ti?
      what-asserting / venerable / Gotama / what-teaching
      "What is the venerable Gotama asserting, what is (he) teaching?"

      vaadin (adj) asserting.
      bhavant (m) venerable.
      akkhaayin (adj) teaching.

      "Kiriyavaadii caaha.m, braahma.na, akiriyavaadii caa"ti.
      action-asserting / and-I / brahmin / non-action-asserting / and
      "I am asserting action, O brahmin, and asserting non-action."

      kiriya (n) doing.

      "Yathaakatha.m pana bhava.m gotamo kiriyavaadii ca akiriyavaadii caa"ti?
      how so then / venerable / Gotama / action-asserting / and / non-action-asserting / and
      "How so, then, is the venerable Gotama asserting action and asserting non-action?"

      yathaa katha.m pana (phrase) how so then.



      metta,
      Yong Peng.
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Ven. Sobhana, thank you. The name is Yong Peng. It is good you look up another source, but you have not gone much into details. Allow me to help elaborate
      Message 46 of 46 , Jul 4, 2011
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        Dear Ven. Sobhana,

        thank you. The name is Yong Peng.

        It is good you look up another source, but you have not gone much into details. Allow me to help elaborate on point 1(a). This is exactly what the commentary says:

        saadhuuti aayaacanatthe nipaato.

        First, I annotate it for the beginners:

        saadhuuti aayaacan'atthe nipaato.

        Now, translating the commentary:

        'saadhu' (is) a particle for asking*, adhortation*, addressing*.

        * see PTS PED - aayaacana.

        Further explanation:

        In Pali, nipaata includes conjunctions and adverbs. So, we can translate 'saadhu' as 'please'.

        Finally, I make an attempt with the original sentence to show what I mean:

        Saadhu, bhante, bhagavaa yena aayasmaa saariputto tenupasa`nkamatu anukampa.m upaadaayaa'ti.
        please / venerable sir / Blessed One / where / venerable / Sariputta /
        there-let...approach / out of compassion
        Please, sir, may the Blessed One, out of compassion, approach there [the place] where the venerable Sariputta (is staying).'

        There is a tendency for some, as I pointed in a recent post, to rationalise the Pali using an existing English translation. I find it uncomprehensible when given our level of Pali understanding, we can do a slightly better job. In fact, I also see lurking dangers in doing so. I do not intend to elaborate on this.

        As a PTS sponsoring member, I am also using F.L.Woodward's translation as a reference in this exercise, i.e., from AN1.1.1, another point which I have mentioned several times too. However, that does not mean it is my only reference, or that I have to reproduce directly from PTS or any other existing works. This "read and follow" mentality is more suitable for someone who only needs an English translation, and does not bother with the original Pali passage, not a Pali student.

        It is in fact much easier for me to type out the PTS translation, than doing extensive referencing on dictionaries, grammars, and cross checking other translations. However, this is not a "typing" exercise for me, and I would rather spend my time doing something more meaningful. Let's make this a good learning opportunity for everyone, so that the time and effort we put in is rewarding.

        Lastly, if you use additional examples in Pali, please bear in mind, it is your responsibility to provide an accurate English translation. Anyone can generate Pali sentences using the appropriate search tool/program.

        I will make this post as a 'landmark' message for the future. Thank you.

        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, USO wrote:

        Here are some of the meanings of Saadhu from One of the Pali-Myanmar Dictionaries.
        1. "i request you" (aayaacana); "I order you" (aanatti).
        2. o.k., alright(sampa.ticchana)
        3. interjection used to rejoice (anumodana)
        4. good, beautiful (sunadara, bhaddaka, sobhana)
        5. well (adverb)
        6.pure (parisuddha)
        7. wholesome action...

        Here, we take the first meaning in cases like the one you are discussing. The commentaries also explain as 'aayaacana'. In Burma, we explain like this: yena aayasmaa saariputto (atthi) tena upasa'nkamatu. 'Tena' here is used in the sense of second case: 'to', 'towards'. Here, it will be 'aayaacama' for a group of deities are requesting the Buddha.
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