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Re: dear nina, "yoniso manasikaara"

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  • sakyaputtiyo@yahoo.com
    Dear Nina, Thanks a lot for your clear explanations. I used to understand yonisomanasikara as a manner of attention towards objects that come into contact
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 30, 2010
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      Dear Nina,
      Thanks a lot for your clear explanations.
      I used to understand yonisomanasikara as a 'manner of attention towards objects that come into contact with our sense bases that triggers wholesome states of mind'; or 'paying attention to those aspects of the objects that would trigger wholesome stats of mind'. For example, if we pay attention to good and admirable qualities of a person, loving kindness will arise.
      Please comment.

      Bhante Sobhana
      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
      >
      > Venerable Bhante Sobhana,
      > Op 27-dec-2010, om 4:29 heeft sakyaputtiyo@... het volgende
      > geschreven:
      >
      > > can you please share your knowledge about 'yonisomanasikara'.
      > -------
      > N: Manasikaara has several meanings. It can refer to the cetasika
      > manasikaara, attention, that accompanies every citta. It can also
      > refer to: the citta that is the five-sense-door adverting-
      > consciousness which is the first citta of a sense-door process
      > adverting to the object that has impinged on the relevant sense-door.
      > Thirdly, it refers to the mind-door adverting-consciousness,
      > manodvaaraavajjana-citta. In the sense-door process this citta (the
      > manodvaaraavajjanacitta) performs the function of determining,
      > votthapana, and it is followed by kusala cittas or akusala cittas (in
      > the case of non-arahats). In the mind-door process it performs the
      > function of adverting to the object that has impinged on the mind-
      > door and it is followed by kusala cittas or akusala cittas.
      > Yoniso means: in the right way, thoroughly. Yono means womb, origin,
      > nature, matrix. When the votthapanacitta is followed by kusala
      > cittas, and also when the manodvaaraavajjanacitta is followed by
      > kusala cittas there is yoniso manasikaara, right attention. When they
      > are followed by akusala cittas there is unwise attention, ayoniso
      > manasikaara.
      > Usually the series of kusala cittas and akusala cittas are seven in
      > number. They are called javana-cittas.
      > Cittas succeed one another extremely fast and therefore we cannot
      > actually pinpoint when there the citta manasikaara arises. Nor can we
      > control it, it has already arisen before we know it. It is because of
      > accumulations of wholesome or unwholesome inclinations that there are
      > conditions for the arising of kusala cittas and akusala cittas. For
      > example, we may dislike loud sounds and when we hear it the dislike
      > has already arisen before we realise it. There is already unwise
      > attention. This process goes on the whole day. After seeing visible
      > object or hearing sound, javana-cittas arise very shortly afterwards
      > and usually there is unwise attention. There may be attachment to the
      > object accompanied by indifferent feeling and this may be unnoticed.
      > After akusala cittas have fallen away there may be another mind-door
      > process with mindfulness of the akusala cittas that have just fallen
      > away. Then there is wise attention, yoniso manasikaara. When we have
      > listened to the Dhamma and wisely considered it there are conditions
      > for the arising of mindfulness of whatever reality appears, be it
      > kusala or akusala. The eightfold path can be developed that
      > eventually leads to the end of unwise attention.
      > -------
      > with respect,
      > Nina.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Venerable Bhante Sobhana, Op 30-dec-2010, om 15:40 heeft sakyaputtiyo@yahoo.com het volgende ... N: It is good that you emphasize the manner (aakaara) of
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 1, 2011
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        Venerable Bhante Sobhana,
        Op 30-dec-2010, om 15:40 heeft sakyaputtiyo@... het volgende
        geschreven:

        > I used to understand yonisomanasikara as a 'manner of attention
        > towards objects that come into contact with our sense bases that
        > triggers wholesome states of mind'; or 'paying attention to those
        > aspects of the objects that would trigger wholesome states of
        > mind'. For example, if we pay attention to good and admirable
        > qualities of a person, loving kindness will arise.
        ------
        N: It is good that you emphasize the manner (aakaara) of attention to
        objects. Not the objects themselves are the real cause of kusala
        cittas or akusala cittas, but the manner of attention to objects. I
        would like to elaborate somewhat on this subject. I find it a good
        subject to consider myself, it pertains to daily life.
        A person may show disagreeable qualties and act in an unpleasant way
        in conduct or speech. Someone who notices this may have aversion, and
        then there is for him unwise attention.
        Someone else may have understanding of accumulated tendencies both in
        himself and others and see to what extent this conditions the cittas
        arising at the presnt moment, their anattaness. Such understanding is
        the condition for wise attention and hence compassion may arise. He
        may try to give help instead of being annoyed.
        Different manners of attention in these two cases. This is according
        to conditions. When someone had a great deal of aversion in the past
        this is a condition that it easily arises at present, he may be
        easily irritated and annoyed. When someone has listened to the Dhamma
        and developed understanding of realities this understanding is above
        all a condition to have wise attention, no matter what kind of people
        he meets, no matter what circumstances he is in.
        Former akusala and former kusala conditions by way of natural
        decisive support-condition (pakatupanissaya paccaya) the arising of
        akusala citta and kusala citta at present. They have been accumulated
        from moment to moment, since each citta that falls away is succeeded
        by the following citta. Considering conditions helps us to have less
        clinging to an idea of self who has wise attention or unwise
        attention. Whatever arises does so because of conditions.

        I would like to quote from 'The Roots of Good and Evil' by Ven.
        Nyanaponika (Wheel 251/253, edition 1978). He quotes from the
        �Discourse on all the Cankers� (Middle Length Sayings I, no. 2 ) that
        the Buddha, while he was staying near S�vatth�, in the Jeta Grove, spoke
        to the monks about the controlling of all the cankers.
        Quote:

        <The uninstructed common man... does not know the things worthy of
        attention (manasikaran�ye dhamme) nor those not worthy of attention
        (amanasikaran�ye)...

        We read that he therefore fails to give attention to what is worthy
        of it and directs his attention to what is unworthy. The well-
        instructed disciple knows what is worthy of attention and what is
        not, and he acts accordingly. We read in the commentary to this sutta
        (Papa~ncasuudanii) :

        ...There is nothing definite in the nature of the things (or objects)
        themselves that makes them worthy or unworthy of attention; but there
        is such definiteness in the manner (aakaara) of attention. A manner of
        attention that provides a basis for the arising of what is
        unwholesome or evil (akusala), that kind of attention should not be
        given (to the respective object); but the kind of attention that is
        the basis for the arising of the good and wholesome (kusala), that
        manner of attention should be given.>
        ----------
        With respect,
        Nina.




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