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Re: Abhidhamma Series, no 24. The Seven Books of the Abhidhamma (part 1).

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  • thomaslaw03
    Dear Nina, Thank you very much for your kind reply. ... So, the term, Suttata Maatikaa, is appeared only in the Dhammasa ngani text? And the subject headings
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 15 6:57 PM
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      Dear Nina,

      Thank you very much for your kind reply.

      "N: I just open my Dhammasa"ngani text and it says:
      > Maatikaa: A. Abhidhamma.
      > B. Suttanta.
      > -------
      > In the translation of U Kyaw Khine:'Suttantika Duka Maatikaa.'
      > I see no problem here. Ven. Nyanatiloka did not alter anything."

      So, the term, Suttata Maatikaa, is appeared "only" in the Dhammasa"ngani text?

      And the subject headings for Suttata Maatikaa, according to your previous posting, are "chiefly the Sangiitisutta, or the Anguttara Nikaaya" (according to the Dhammasa"ngani text?)?

      Are these correct?

      Sincerely,

      Thomas Law

      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Thomas,
      > Op 15-aug-2010, om 6:22 heeft thomaslaw03 het volgende geschreven:
      >
      > > If this term does not actually exist or present in those
      > > collections, then the Pali tradition does not really preserve the
      > > tradition or concept (the term) regarding "Suttanta Maatikaa". It
      > > is here (by Ven. Nyanatiloka?) just making up the expression or
      > > phrase for the his Guide through the Abhidhamma Pitaka.
      > ------
      > N: I just open my Dhammasa"ngani text and it says:
      > Maatikaa: A. Abhidhamma.
      > B. Suttanta.
      > -------
      > In the translation of U Kyaw Khine:'Suttantika Duka Maatikaa.'
      > I see no problem here. Ven. Nyanatiloka did not alter anything.
      > -------
      > > Th:
      > > In other words, Suttanta Maatikaa, i.e. Suutra-maat.rkaa in Skt.,
      > > is "only" appeared in the "Mahayana" Yogacara-bhumi-sastra or
      > > "Sarvastivada" tradition, but not in the Pali tradition. The Pali
      > > tradition simply regards all subject headings/fundamental topics
      > > shown in the Sutta pitaka are maatikaa (of the Buddha teachings)....
      > >
      > > The topics (subject headings) of the Suutra-maat.rkaa found in the
      > > Yogacara-bhumi-sastra/Sarvastivada tradition correspond quite
      > > closely to the structure of some Pali Abhidhamma books, including
      > > non-Pali Abhidharmas, and the major part of Samyutta-nikaya/
      > > Samyukta-agama. I get this information from the books, The
      > > Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism (by Choong Mun-keat), and
      > > The Buddhist Path to Awakening (by R. M. L. Gethin).
      > >
      > > However, if this term, Suttanta Maatikaa, is not appeared in the
      > > Abhidhamma and Sutta pitakas, and their Pali commentaries, then the
      > > Pali tradition does not really preserve or maintain the tradition
      > > of "Suttanta Maatikaa". It may be just lost in the Pali tradition,
      > > but found only in the maatikaas (subject headings or the structure)
      > > of some Abhidhamma books, such as Vibhanga.
      > -------
      > N: I do not know enough about other traditions to go into this. Is
      > the whole subject perhaps just a matter of words? The Vibha"nga has
      > many references to the suttas, and also the puggala pa~n~natti refers
      > to the suttas, uses the same similes.
      > -----
      > Nina.
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear Thomas, ... N: Correct. I did not see it elsewhere. ... N: I would not say it a little differently: The terms can be traced back to the Sutta Pi.taka,
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 16 7:06 AM
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        Dear Thomas,
        Op 16-aug-2010, om 3:57 heeft thomaslaw03 het volgende geschreven:

        > So, the term, Suttanta Maatikaa, is appeared "only" in the
        > Dhammasa"ngani text?
        -----
        N: Correct. I did not see it elsewhere.
        ------
        >
        > Th: And the subject headings for Suttata Maatikaa, according to
        > your previous posting, are "chiefly the Sangiitisutta, or the
        > Anguttara Nikaaya" (according to the Dhammasa"ngani text?)?
        ------
        N: I would not say it a little differently: The terms can be 'traced
        back to the Sutta Pi.taka, chiefly to the Sangiiti sutta or the
        Anguttara Nijaaya...' according to Ven. Nyanatiloka.
        -----
        Nina.



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