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Re: [Pali] Re: Gair Karunatillake Answers - Chapters 8-9

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  • ������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A.
    Dear Paul, Ms. Cone s dictionary is a step forward, but still has a lot to improve. What for are those numerous Pali citations without explanation - nowadays
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 30, 2002
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      Dear Paul,

      Ms. Cone's dictionary is a step forward, but still has a lot to
      improve. What for are those numerous Pali citations without
      explanation - nowadays anyone can find any number of relevant
      citations on computer. PED is more friendly in this regard. It also
      has many pioneering discoveries of the meanings, be they right or
      wrong. Ms. Cone's dictionary often simply preserves them and does not
      reflect active work of thought. It gives impression that
      philological Pali thought has somewhat stagnated since 1925.

      p> As to Monier-Williams, wasn't the first edition published in 1851?
      p> I see references to an Oxford reprint edition of 1899 but I'm not sure
      p> this is the same thing you are referring to.

      I don't know its exact publication date. The fact is that
      Monier-Williams dictionary is not included in the list of consulted
      sources of PED.

      Etymology represents an important constituent of linguistic studies -
      alongside with actual context, commentarial glosses, definitions,
      equivalents in other languages. We should use all these tools for
      better understanding.

      Best Wishes,
      Dimitry
    • ������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A.
      Dear Robert, RD Of more importance to context than the date of the publication of MW was the RD lack of a BHS dictionary which had to wait until Edgerton.
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 1, 2002
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        Dear Robert,

        RD> Of more importance to context than the date of the publication of MW was the
        RD> lack of a BHS dictionary which had to wait until Edgerton.

        Can you please tell more about Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Dictionary by
        F. Edgerton? How relevant it is to Pali studies?

        Kind regards,

        Dimitry Ivakhnenko
      • Robert Didham
        Dear Dimitry The point I was making was partly that the search for meanings and etymologies of Pali and Prakrit texts is likely to prove less fruitful if one
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 1, 2002
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          Dear Dimitry

          The point I was making was partly that the search for meanings and
          etymologies of Pali and Prakrit texts is likely to prove less fruitful if
          one looks in classical Sanskrit as attested in MW than it is to be if one
          looks at forms reflected BHS. For this reason if the compilers of the PED
          were to have needed recourse to a Sanskrit dictionary they would have found
          Edgerton a lot more useful if only because the examples were drawn almost
          exclusively from Buddhist materials.

          They probably would have used used Boehtlingk of course rather than MW but
          their stated sources do not indicate this (neither are mentioned, though
          they do mention both Brugmann and Grassmann - and their foreword is well
          worth a read for considerable insight into their perspective).

          Edgerton's dictionary was not published until around 1950 (there are current
          editions published by Motilal Banarsidass) but as with any dictionary, these
          don't get written overnight anymore than one might find a publisher
          overnight!!

          I am not sure if I have adequately answered your question, Dimitry, but
          please let me know if I have totally missed the target.

          Cheers

          Robert

          >From: "������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko)"
          ><koleso@...>
          >Reply-To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
          >To: Robert Didham <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
          >Subject: Re[2]: [Pali] Re: Gair Karunatillake Answers - Chapters 8-9
          >Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:00:53 +0200
          >
          >Dear Robert,
          >
          >RD> Of more importance to context than the date of the publication of MW
          >was the
          >RD> lack of a BHS dictionary which had to wait until Edgerton.
          >
          >Can you please tell more about Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Dictionary by
          >F. Edgerton? How relevant it is to Pali studies?
          >
          >Kind regards,
          >
          >Dimitry Ivakhnenko
          >
          >


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        • Paul O Cuana
          Dear Dimitry, I don t wish to be contentious but it seems important that one should know the date of publication of Monier-Williams before stating that it
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 1, 2002
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            Dear Dimitry,

            I don't wish to be contentious but it seems important
            that one should know the date of publication of
            Monier-Williams before stating that it didn't exist at
            the time the PED was compiled. Not knowing anything
            about Sanskrit, I was genuinely confused by the
            comment
            to the point that I thought perhaps there were two
            such
            people named M-W and I'm still not convinced of this.
            This is to say nothing of the question that the
            existence of M-W leaves open, i.e. why did Rys-Davids
            and Stede not choose M-W.

            As to the two PTS dictionaries, the old focuses on
            etymology and the new on meaning and usage. Both are
            fine works and I didn't mean to denigrate the old.
            I think you'll find that Ms. Cone uses quotations to
            illustrate meaning and mere citations to show the
            range
            of texts, usually canonical, where a word is found.

            I did think your criticism of Ms. Cone was rather
            harsh
            and it recalled a humourous poem that Dorothy Parker
            wrote. Now remember this is all in good fun. I
            believe Mrs. Parker wrote the poem in response to a
            friend of hers who had criticized the work of Charles
            Dickens.

            Those who call him spurious and shoddy
            Shall do so over my lifeless body,
            I do invite such birds
            To step outside and say those words.

            Thank you, Dimitry, for all that you contribute.
            With sincere best wishes,
            Paul

            --- "������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A.
            Ivakhnenko)" <koleso@...> wrote:
            > Dear Paul,
            >
            > Ms. Cone's dictionary is a step forward, but still
            > has a lot to
            > improve. What for are those numerous Pali citations
            > without
            > explanation - nowadays anyone can find any number of
            > relevant
            > citations on computer. PED is more friendly in this
            > regard. It also
            > has many pioneering discoveries of the meanings, be
            > they right or
            > wrong. Ms. Cone's dictionary often simply preserves
            > them and does not
            > reflect active work of thought. It gives impression
            > that
            > philological Pali thought has somewhat stagnated
            > since 1925.
            >
            > p> As to Monier-Williams, wasn't the first edition
            > published in 1851?
            > p> I see references to an Oxford reprint edition of
            > 1899 but I'm not sure
            > p> this is the same thing you are referring to.
            >
            > I don't know its exact publication date. The fact is
            > that
            > Monier-Williams dictionary is not included in the
            > list of consulted
            > sources of PED.
            >
            > Etymology represents an important constituent of
            > linguistic studies -
            > alongside with actual context, commentarial glosses,
            > definitions,
            > equivalents in other languages. We should use all
            > these tools for
            > better understanding.
            >
            > Best Wishes,
            > Dimitry
            >
            >
            >


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