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Re: [Pali] Re: AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (14/14)

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  • Bryan Levman
    Dear Yong Peng, Nina and Jim, ... To me the commentary is explicating the phrase from the suttta “with correctly arranged letters and words (Sunikkhitta~nca
    Message 1 of 97 , Jun 7, 2010
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      Dear Yong Peng, Nina and Jim,

      > when I look at the commentary, it has:
      >
      > dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
      > gahitapaa.lipadameva hi atthassa bya~njanattaa bya~njananti vuccati
      >
      > Does it translate as:
      >
      > A Pali word taken "out of reach" surely a letter from the state of
      > the letter of the meaning is known as "dunnikkhitta~nca
      > padabya~njana.m".


      To me the commentary is explicating the phrase from the suttta “with correctly
      arranged letters and words (Sunikkhitta~nca padabya~njana.m) the meaning is easily understood (attho ca
      suniito)”.

      The commentator does
      so by defining “badly arranged (dunnikkhitta~n) letters and words (padabya~njanan) which
      surely (eva) leads to words in a sentence
      (paa.li-padam) being taken (gahita) out of order (uppa.tipaa.tiyaa – oblique
      case, see CPD s. v.) for a letter is called
      a letter (or sign or mark; bya~njanati vuccati) because (hi) its essence
      (attaa) is the distinctive mark (bya~njana) of the meaning (atthassa).

      Metta, Bryan






      ________________________________
      From: Ong Yong Peng <palismith@...>
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, June 5, 2010 10:51:51 AM
      Subject: [Pali] Re: AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (14/14)


      Dear Nina,

      when I look at the commentary, it has:

      dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva hi atthassa bya~njanattaa bya~njananti vuccati

      Does it translate as:

      A Pali word taken "out of reach" surely a letter from the state of the letter of the meaning is known as "dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njana.m".

      Thank you.

      metta,
      Yong Peng.

      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

      > Sunikkhittassa, bhikkhave, padabya~njanassa atthopi sunayo hoti.
      > of correctly arranged / monks / of letter of word / meaning-too /
      > correctly inferred / is
      > O monks, when the letter of word (is) correctly arranged, the
      > meaning is accurately interpretated too.

      N: Do you like: letter of the text?






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan, thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings,
      Message 97 of 97 , Jun 14, 2010
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        Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,

        thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.

        Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.

        I will simply put everything together:

        dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti
        "(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"

        uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva
        such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order

        hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
        for the significance and essence of the meaning

        bya~njananti
        "bya~njana.m"

        vuccati
        is called

        * Paraphrasing ...

        "dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".


        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.

        > I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
        > here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
        > of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
        > comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
        > "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
        > resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
        > members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
        > gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
        > "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).
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