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Re: [Pali] Abhidhamma Series, no 16. The World.

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  • Luc Delannoy
    Dear Nina I am taking the liberty to send you a couple of questions IN CAP LETTERS in reference to this message you posted several days ago. Many thanks in
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 5, 2010
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      Dear Nina

      I am taking the liberty to send you a couple of questions IN CAP LETTERS in reference to this message you posted several days ago. Many thanks in advance for your time.
      Best wishes
      Luc






      ________________________________
      From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
      To: pali@yahoogroups.com; dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 8:41:52 AM
      Subject: [Pali] Abhidhamma Series, no 16. The World.

      Dear friends,

      no 16. The World.

      The study of the different kinds of naama and ruupa will help us to
      understand more clearly the various conditions for the arising of
      bodily phenomena and mental phenomena. Gradually we shall come to
      understand that all our experiences in life, all the objects we
      experience, our bodily movements and our speech are only conditioned
      naama and ruupa. In the planes of existence where there are naama and
      ruupa, naama conditions ruupa and ruupa conditions naama in different
      ways. The ruupas that are sense objects and the ruupas that can
      function as sense-doors are conditions for the different cittas
      arising in processes which experience sense objects.
      The study of ruupas can help us to have more clarity about the fact
      that only one object at a time can be experienced through one of the
      six doors. Visible object, for example, can be experienced through
      the eye-door, it cannot be experienced through the body-door, thus,
      through touch. Seeing-consciousness experiences what is visible and
      body-consciousness experiences tangible object, such as hardness or
      softness. Through each door the appropriate object can be experienced
      and the different doorways should not be confused with one another.
      When we believe that we can see and touch a flower, we think of a
      concept. A concept or conventional truth can be an object of thought,
      but it is not a paramattha dhamma, an ultimate reality with its own
      inalterable characteristic.
      When we are thinking about the world and all people in it, we only
      know the world by way of conventional truth. It seems that there is
      the world full of beings and things, but in reality there is citta
      experiencing different dhammas arising and falling away very rapidly.
      Only one object at a time can be cognized as it appears through one
      doorway. Without the doorways of the senses and the mind the world
      could not appear. So long as we take what appears as a ‘whole’, a
      being or person, we do not know the world.
      DOES IT MEAN THAT WE ARE STRUCTURING AND CONSTRUCTING WHAT LOOKS TO US AS A WORLD?

      We read in the “Kindred Sayings” (IV, Sa.laayatana vagga, Kindred
      Sayings on Sense, Second Fifty, Ch II, § 68, Samiddhi sutta)
      WHRE CAN I FIND THIS BOOK?
      that
      when the Buddha was staying near Raajagaha, in Bamboo Grove, Samiddhi
      came to see him and adressed him:
      “ ‘The world! The world!’ is the saying, lord. Pray, lord, to what
      extent is there the world or the concept of ‘world’?”
      “Where there is eye, Samiddhi, visible object, seeing-consciousness,
      where there are dhammas cognizable by the eye, there is the world and
      the concept of ‘world’.”
      (The same is said with regard to the other doorways.)

      In our life happy moments and sad moments alternate. We attach great
      importance to our experiences in life, to our life in this world, but
      actually life is extremely short, lasting only as long as one moment
      of citta.

      We read in the “Visuddhimagga” (VII, 39) :
      "'Life, person, pleasure, pain - just these alone
      Join in one conscious moment that flicks by.
      Ceased aggregates of those dead or alive
      Are all alike, gone never to return.
      No [world is] born if [consciousness is] not
      Produced; when that is present, then it lives;
      When consciousness dissolves, the world is dead:
      The highest sense this concept will allow' (Nd.1,42)."

      WHERE CAN I FIND THIS BOOK?

      ------------

      Nina.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear Luc, I appreciate your interest and questions. ... N: We fail to see what is really there: there are citta, cetasika and ruupa, but we are taken in by our
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 6, 2010
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        Dear Luc,
        I appreciate your interest and questions.
        Op 5-jun-2010, om 21:21 heeft Luc Delannoy het volgende geschreven:

        > When we are thinking about the world and all people in it, we only
        > know the world by way of conventional truth. It seems that there is
        > the world full of beings and things, but in reality there is citta
        > experiencing different dhammas arising and falling away very rapidly.
        > Only one object at a time can be cognized as it appears through one
        > doorway. Without the doorways of the senses and the mind the world
        > could not appear. So long as we take what appears as a �whole�, a
        > being or person, we do not know the world.
        > DOES IT MEAN THAT WE ARE STRUCTURING AND CONSTRUCTING WHAT LOOKS TO
        > US AS A WORLD?
        ---------
        N: We fail to see what is really there: there are citta, cetasika and
        ruupa, but we are taken in by our thoughts about the world which
        seems to last. Citta, cetasika and ruupa arise and then fall away,
        they are impermanent. They do not last. Seeing sees what is visible,
        and both the seeing and visible object fall away immediately. After
        seeing we think for a long time about people and things, and these
        are only concepts, not realities. A person or thing is not the object
        of seeing, only an object of thinking.
        -----------
        > L:We read in the �Kindred Sayings� (IV, Sa.laayatana vagga, Kindred
        > Sayings on Sense, Second Fifty, Ch II, � 68, Samiddhi sutta)
        > WHRE CAN I FIND THIS BOOK?
        ---------
        N: You can order it from the Pali Text society: <
        pts@... > or Ven. Bodhi's translation: the Connected
        Discourses of the Buddha, Wisdom Publications , <www.wisdompubs.org >
        ---------
        >
        > L: We read in the �Visuddhimagga� (VII, 39) :
        > "'Life, person, pleasure, pain - just these alone
        > Join in one conscious moment that flicks by.
        > WHERE CAN I FIND THIS BOOK?
        ------
        Pali Text Society. There are two translations: The Path of
        Purification, transl by Ven. Nyanamoli, and The Path of Purity,
        transl. by T. Maung Tin. I used the first one.
        -------
        Nina.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Luc Delannoy
        Dear Nina Thank you for your time and answers. Luc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 6, 2010
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          Dear Nina
          Thank you for your time and answers.
          Luc

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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