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Re: [Pali] Re: Pali Skype Group

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  • Магуба
    I still think that a Pali revival project could be a good idea. This would allow the people from Buddhist community with different linguistic and cultural
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 28, 2010
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      I still think that a Pali revival project could be a good idea. This would allow the people from Buddhist community with different linguistic and cultural background to communicate freely. As for the modern vocabulary - it can be created not only out of words and phrases derived from the classical texts but also through constructing new words by applying the rules of Panini's grammar. The Sanskrit revivalists in India do this and likewise the Latin revival movement in Europe.

      --- On Wed, 4/28/10, yeshuacohen <yeshuacohen@...> wrote:

      From: yeshuacohen <yeshuacohen@...>
      Subject: [Pali] Re: Pali Skype Group
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, April 28, 2010, 10:58 AM







       









      > N: Perhaps starting with some grammar books like Warder? Or see the

      > home page, several books. Then later on you can communicate in the

      > way you like.

      >

      > Nina.

      >



      I have several Pali books: Warder's Introduction, De Silva's Primer, Perniola's grammar, Geiger's grammar, A new course in reading Pali, the PTS dictionary, and basically every available online resource (including several copies of the Tipitaka).



      I have started on the Pali Primer and will continue with that and move onto another text afterwards.



      However, this is not a threading asking how to learn but, rather, a thread expressing the desire to start a learning group. It would be made up of beginners, and not those who are more advanced with the language. I think that this group caters more for those who are comfortable with grammar or are further into the language. My idea is not to create a "splinter group", but to create an atmosphere for beginners, instead.



      The aim is not to talk in Pali, if such a thing could be done anyway. I very much doubt this, as the language, with its lack of modern vocabulary, does not suit everyday discussion. (Though, I have no doubt that a revival movement could easily derive such words and phrases). Instead, it's like a support group for those ravaged by the intricacies of Pali grammar. :)

























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lennart Lopin
      Hi ardavarz, I agree and it will definitely happen. Books like Lingua Latina teaching Latin with the direct method had a tremendous impact on reviving Latin
      Message 2 of 11 , May 1, 2010
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        Hi ardavarz,

        I agree and it will definitely happen. Books like "Lingua Latina" teaching
        Latin with the direct method had a tremendous impact on reviving Latin and
        if you happen to watch some of their videos on youtube it is amazing to see
        people mastering the skills to express themselves colloquially using Latin -
        many of whom now see the Latin language from a much more natural
        context-rich point of view which helped their studies...

        metta,

        Lennart

        2010/4/28 Магубад Бурджан <ardavarz@...>

        >
        >
        > I still think that a Pali revival project could be a good idea. This would
        > allow the people from Buddhist community with different linguistic and
        > cultural background to communicate freely. As for the modern vocabulary - it
        > can be created not only out of words and phrases derived from the classical
        > texts but also through constructing new words by applying the rules of
        > Panini's grammar. The Sanskrit revivalists in India do this and likewise the
        > Latin revival movement in Europe.
        >
        > --- On Wed, 4/28/10, yeshuacohen <yeshuacohen@...<yeshuacohen%40yahoo.com.au>>
        > wrote:
        >
        > From: yeshuacohen <yeshuacohen@... <yeshuacohen%40yahoo.com.au>>
        > Subject: [Pali] Re: Pali Skype Group
        > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Date: Wednesday, April 28, 2010, 10:58 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > > N: Perhaps starting with some grammar books like Warder? Or see the
        >
        > > home page, several books. Then later on you can communicate in the
        >
        > > way you like.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Nina.
        >
        > >
        >
        > I have several Pali books: Warder's Introduction, De Silva's Primer,
        > Perniola's grammar, Geiger's grammar, A new course in reading Pali, the PTS
        > dictionary, and basically every available online resource (including several
        > copies of the Tipitaka).
        >
        > I have started on the Pali Primer and will continue with that and move onto
        > another text afterwards.
        >
        > However, this is not a threading asking how to learn but, rather, a thread
        > expressing the desire to start a learning group. It would be made up of
        > beginners, and not those who are more advanced with the language. I think
        > that this group caters more for those who are comfortable with grammar or
        > are further into the language. My idea is not to create a "splinter group",
        > but to create an atmosphere for beginners, instead.
        >
        > The aim is not to talk in Pali, if such a thing could be done anyway. I
        > very much doubt this, as the language, with its lack of modern vocabulary,
        > does not suit everyday discussion. (Though, I have no doubt that a revival
        > movement could easily derive such words and phrases). Instead, it's like a
        > support group for those ravaged by the intricacies of Pali grammar. :)
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Gunnar Gällmo
        -- Den sön 2010-05-02 skrev Lennart Lopin :
        Message 3 of 11 , May 1, 2010
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          -- Den sön 2010-05-02 skrev Lennart Lopin <novalis78@...>:

          <I agree and it will definitely happen. Books like "Lingua Latina" teaching
          Latin with the direct method had a tremendous impact on reviving Latin and
          if you happen to watch some of their videos on youtube it is amazing to see
          people mastering the skills to express themselves colloquially using Latin -
          many of whom now see the Latin language from a much more natural
          context-rich point of view which helped their studies...>

          The basis is different, though. Pali is much more specialized. Both Latin and Sanskrit have been used by several religious/philosophical schools, as well as for secular purposes, but all Pali literature is in some way connected with Theravada Buddhism.

          Gunnar
        • Lennart Lopin
          ... Well, Pali is already being used as a means of communication between Burmese, Sri Lankan and Thai monks (Even though English is replacing that in many
          Message 4 of 11 , May 2, 2010
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            >
            >
            > The basis is different, though. Pali is much more specialized. Both Latin
            > and Sanskrit have been used by several religious/philosophical schools, as
            > well as for secular purposes, but all Pali literature is in some way
            > connected with Theravada Buddhism.
            >
            >
            Well, Pali is already being used as a means of communication between
            Burmese, Sri Lankan and Thai monks (Even though English is replacing that in
            many cases). Pali was a living language at one time - many of the colloquial
            expressions/phrases and day to day vocabulary are there. If someone
            standardizes contemporary vocabulary (take for instance Buddhadatta's
            attempt in his English-Pali dictionary) then I don't see any reason why you
            could not learn or teach how to use Pali in a revived spoken form. I think
            it is not so much a question of how or if but rather why. If someone sees
            enough reasons to do so and has enough time and skill it should not be a
            problem, especially looking at the very effective methods developed in
            recent decades to revive spoken Latin (i.e. seminars where people go to and
            try to talk only in Latin, improving their impromptu Latin knowledge by
            being forced to talk in that language).

            Anyway, not really that important, but an interesting way of deepening one's
            Pali knowledge.

            metta,
            Lennart


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Магуба
            Hi, Gunar and Lennart! I think that a revived colloquial Pali could be used at least for discussing Dhamma topics as has been done in the past. Someone has
            Message 5 of 11 , May 2, 2010
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              Hi, Gunar and Lennart!

              I think that a revived colloquial Pali could be used at least for discussing Dhamma topics as has been done in the past. Someone has told me that Lamaist monks use for such purpose Old Tibetan which is quite different from the spoken language. Looking at the abundant Pali literature from times when the language was not spoken already - not only the classical Commentaries but also the most recent works of scholar monks from past two centuries - one is left with the impression that these authors could speak Pali fluently if needed.
              There is ashrams in India where people are trained to talk Sanskrit without any other language medium. It would be interesting if some similar experiments has been made in Theravada Buddhist countries, but I am not aware of such projects. If someone knows something about that, please, let me know - I would be interested.

              With metta,
              Ardavarz

              --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Lennart Lopin <novalis78@...> wrote:

              From: Lennart Lopin <novalis78@...>
              Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Pali Skype Group
              To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 4:08 PM







               









              >

              >

              > The basis is different, though. Pali is much more specialized. Both Latin

              > and Sanskrit have been used by several religious/philosoph ical schools, as

              > well as for secular purposes, but all Pali literature is in some way

              > connected with Theravada Buddhism.

              >

              >

              Well, Pali is already being used as a means of communication between

              Burmese, Sri Lankan and Thai monks (Even though English is replacing that in

              many cases). Pali was a living language at one time - many of the colloquial

              expressions/ phrases and day to day vocabulary are there. If someone

              standardizes contemporary vocabulary (take for instance Buddhadatta' s

              attempt in his English-Pali dictionary) then I don't see any reason why you

              could not learn or teach how to use Pali in a revived spoken form. I think

              it is not so much a question of how or if but rather why. If someone sees

              enough reasons to do so and has enough time and skill it should not be a

              problem, especially looking at the very effective methods developed in

              recent decades to revive spoken Latin (i.e. seminars where people go to and

              try to talk only in Latin, improving their impromptu Latin knowledge by

              being forced to talk in that language).



              Anyway, not really that important, but an interesting way of deepening one's

              Pali knowledge.



              metta,

              Lennart



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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