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Re: [Pali] Re: Pali Skype Group

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  • Магуба
    I still think that a Pali revival project could be a good idea. This would allow the people from Buddhist community with different linguistic and cultural
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 28, 2010
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      I still think that a Pali revival project could be a good idea. This would allow the people from Buddhist community with different linguistic and cultural background to communicate freely. As for the modern vocabulary - it can be created not only out of words and phrases derived from the classical texts but also through constructing new words by applying the rules of Panini's grammar. The Sanskrit revivalists in India do this and likewise the Latin revival movement in Europe.

      --- On Wed, 4/28/10, yeshuacohen <yeshuacohen@...> wrote:

      From: yeshuacohen <yeshuacohen@...>
      Subject: [Pali] Re: Pali Skype Group
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, April 28, 2010, 10:58 AM







       









      > N: Perhaps starting with some grammar books like Warder? Or see the

      > home page, several books. Then later on you can communicate in the

      > way you like.

      >

      > Nina.

      >



      I have several Pali books: Warder's Introduction, De Silva's Primer, Perniola's grammar, Geiger's grammar, A new course in reading Pali, the PTS dictionary, and basically every available online resource (including several copies of the Tipitaka).



      I have started on the Pali Primer and will continue with that and move onto another text afterwards.



      However, this is not a threading asking how to learn but, rather, a thread expressing the desire to start a learning group. It would be made up of beginners, and not those who are more advanced with the language. I think that this group caters more for those who are comfortable with grammar or are further into the language. My idea is not to create a "splinter group", but to create an atmosphere for beginners, instead.



      The aim is not to talk in Pali, if such a thing could be done anyway. I very much doubt this, as the language, with its lack of modern vocabulary, does not suit everyday discussion. (Though, I have no doubt that a revival movement could easily derive such words and phrases). Instead, it's like a support group for those ravaged by the intricacies of Pali grammar. :)

























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Yeshua and friends, as the group moderator, I have the following points to make: 1. you are welcome to ask for opinions and assistance in going about with
      Message 2 of 11 , May 1, 2010
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        Dear Yeshua and friends,

        as the group moderator, I have the following points to make:

        1. you are welcome to ask for opinions and assistance in going about with setting up a Pali web presence. You are also welcome to announce your online group. However, please make clear about your objectives, and all your messages are subject to moderation.

        2. I am not worry about a "splinter group", any group exists to serve specific purposes, especially if these are different from our group, e.g. commercially, politically, etc.

        3(a) Our group does not exist to serve any particular geographical interest. We do not serve any particular sectarian interest either.

        3(b) Our group does not officially endorse any other individual or group, online or otherwise. We are not affiliated to or associated with any individual or group in Brisbane or any place in Australia.

        3(c) In the same manner, we are not affiliated to or associated with any individual or group in the world.

        3(d)(i) As a non-exclusive online group, virtually anyone can join our group by providing a working email address, whom we call a "member". The affiliation or association of a "member" outside the group is not a matter of interest to us.

        3(d)(ii) The moderator reserves the rights to ban any "member" from posting, and even to remove any "member" from the group, without any notice.

        3(d)(iii) As we are using a free service provided by Yahoo! Groups, we are subject to its terms and conditions.

        4. Any comments and opinions of other individuals and groups expressed by our members are not the views of the group. Individual members are responsible for their own views and opinions.

        5. The views and opinions published on tipitaka.net do not generally reflect the views and opinions of the group, and vice versa.

        6. Finally, I like to say that we welcome beginners and advance Pali students alike. We do not qualify and classify our members into groups. In order for anyone to benefit from the group, especially to learn Pali, he or she has to start posting and ask questions.


        Thank you.

        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, yeshuacohen wrote:

        My idea is not to create a "splinter group", but to create an atmosphere for beginners, instead.
      • Lennart Lopin
        Hi ardavarz, I agree and it will definitely happen. Books like Lingua Latina teaching Latin with the direct method had a tremendous impact on reviving Latin
        Message 3 of 11 , May 1, 2010
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          Hi ardavarz,

          I agree and it will definitely happen. Books like "Lingua Latina" teaching
          Latin with the direct method had a tremendous impact on reviving Latin and
          if you happen to watch some of their videos on youtube it is amazing to see
          people mastering the skills to express themselves colloquially using Latin -
          many of whom now see the Latin language from a much more natural
          context-rich point of view which helped their studies...

          metta,

          Lennart

          2010/4/28 Магубад Бурджан <ardavarz@...>

          >
          >
          > I still think that a Pali revival project could be a good idea. This would
          > allow the people from Buddhist community with different linguistic and
          > cultural background to communicate freely. As for the modern vocabulary - it
          > can be created not only out of words and phrases derived from the classical
          > texts but also through constructing new words by applying the rules of
          > Panini's grammar. The Sanskrit revivalists in India do this and likewise the
          > Latin revival movement in Europe.
          >
          > --- On Wed, 4/28/10, yeshuacohen <yeshuacohen@...<yeshuacohen%40yahoo.com.au>>
          > wrote:
          >
          > From: yeshuacohen <yeshuacohen@... <yeshuacohen%40yahoo.com.au>>
          > Subject: [Pali] Re: Pali Skype Group
          > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Date: Wednesday, April 28, 2010, 10:58 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > N: Perhaps starting with some grammar books like Warder? Or see the
          >
          > > home page, several books. Then later on you can communicate in the
          >
          > > way you like.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Nina.
          >
          > >
          >
          > I have several Pali books: Warder's Introduction, De Silva's Primer,
          > Perniola's grammar, Geiger's grammar, A new course in reading Pali, the PTS
          > dictionary, and basically every available online resource (including several
          > copies of the Tipitaka).
          >
          > I have started on the Pali Primer and will continue with that and move onto
          > another text afterwards.
          >
          > However, this is not a threading asking how to learn but, rather, a thread
          > expressing the desire to start a learning group. It would be made up of
          > beginners, and not those who are more advanced with the language. I think
          > that this group caters more for those who are comfortable with grammar or
          > are further into the language. My idea is not to create a "splinter group",
          > but to create an atmosphere for beginners, instead.
          >
          > The aim is not to talk in Pali, if such a thing could be done anyway. I
          > very much doubt this, as the language, with its lack of modern vocabulary,
          > does not suit everyday discussion. (Though, I have no doubt that a revival
          > movement could easily derive such words and phrases). Instead, it's like a
          > support group for those ravaged by the intricacies of Pali grammar. :)
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gunnar Gällmo
          -- Den sön 2010-05-02 skrev Lennart Lopin :
          Message 4 of 11 , May 1, 2010
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            -- Den sön 2010-05-02 skrev Lennart Lopin <novalis78@...>:

            <I agree and it will definitely happen. Books like "Lingua Latina" teaching
            Latin with the direct method had a tremendous impact on reviving Latin and
            if you happen to watch some of their videos on youtube it is amazing to see
            people mastering the skills to express themselves colloquially using Latin -
            many of whom now see the Latin language from a much more natural
            context-rich point of view which helped their studies...>

            The basis is different, though. Pali is much more specialized. Both Latin and Sanskrit have been used by several religious/philosophical schools, as well as for secular purposes, but all Pali literature is in some way connected with Theravada Buddhism.

            Gunnar
          • Lennart Lopin
            ... Well, Pali is already being used as a means of communication between Burmese, Sri Lankan and Thai monks (Even though English is replacing that in many
            Message 5 of 11 , May 2, 2010
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              >
              >
              > The basis is different, though. Pali is much more specialized. Both Latin
              > and Sanskrit have been used by several religious/philosophical schools, as
              > well as for secular purposes, but all Pali literature is in some way
              > connected with Theravada Buddhism.
              >
              >
              Well, Pali is already being used as a means of communication between
              Burmese, Sri Lankan and Thai monks (Even though English is replacing that in
              many cases). Pali was a living language at one time - many of the colloquial
              expressions/phrases and day to day vocabulary are there. If someone
              standardizes contemporary vocabulary (take for instance Buddhadatta's
              attempt in his English-Pali dictionary) then I don't see any reason why you
              could not learn or teach how to use Pali in a revived spoken form. I think
              it is not so much a question of how or if but rather why. If someone sees
              enough reasons to do so and has enough time and skill it should not be a
              problem, especially looking at the very effective methods developed in
              recent decades to revive spoken Latin (i.e. seminars where people go to and
              try to talk only in Latin, improving their impromptu Latin knowledge by
              being forced to talk in that language).

              Anyway, not really that important, but an interesting way of deepening one's
              Pali knowledge.

              metta,
              Lennart


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Магуба
              Hi, Gunar and Lennart! I think that a revived colloquial Pali could be used at least for discussing Dhamma topics as has been done in the past. Someone has
              Message 6 of 11 , May 2, 2010
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                Hi, Gunar and Lennart!

                I think that a revived colloquial Pali could be used at least for discussing Dhamma topics as has been done in the past. Someone has told me that Lamaist monks use for such purpose Old Tibetan which is quite different from the spoken language. Looking at the abundant Pali literature from times when the language was not spoken already - not only the classical Commentaries but also the most recent works of scholar monks from past two centuries - one is left with the impression that these authors could speak Pali fluently if needed.
                There is ashrams in India where people are trained to talk Sanskrit without any other language medium. It would be interesting if some similar experiments has been made in Theravada Buddhist countries, but I am not aware of such projects. If someone knows something about that, please, let me know - I would be interested.

                With metta,
                Ardavarz

                --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Lennart Lopin <novalis78@...> wrote:

                From: Lennart Lopin <novalis78@...>
                Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Pali Skype Group
                To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 4:08 PM







                 









                >

                >

                > The basis is different, though. Pali is much more specialized. Both Latin

                > and Sanskrit have been used by several religious/philosoph ical schools, as

                > well as for secular purposes, but all Pali literature is in some way

                > connected with Theravada Buddhism.

                >

                >

                Well, Pali is already being used as a means of communication between

                Burmese, Sri Lankan and Thai monks (Even though English is replacing that in

                many cases). Pali was a living language at one time - many of the colloquial

                expressions/ phrases and day to day vocabulary are there. If someone

                standardizes contemporary vocabulary (take for instance Buddhadatta' s

                attempt in his English-Pali dictionary) then I don't see any reason why you

                could not learn or teach how to use Pali in a revived spoken form. I think

                it is not so much a question of how or if but rather why. If someone sees

                enough reasons to do so and has enough time and skill it should not be a

                problem, especially looking at the very effective methods developed in

                recent decades to revive spoken Latin (i.e. seminars where people go to and

                try to talk only in Latin, improving their impromptu Latin knowledge by

                being forced to talk in that language).



                Anyway, not really that important, but an interesting way of deepening one's

                Pali knowledge.



                metta,

                Lennart



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























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