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Re: [Pali] Abhidhamma Series, no 7. Kamma and Result.

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  • Ken O
    Dear Bryan ... There is a will but no one will, it is cetana that will.  When we think there is an I that will, that I  is miccha ditthi that arise with
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 7, 2010
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      Dear Bryan

      >I know this is an age-old question, but if there is "no self who can determine to do wrong or to do what is right" who is it that awakens to and follows the Eight Fold Noble Path? Did the Buddha not believe in free will? Certainly from reading his teachings, it seems like he did. Please explain,

      There is a will but no one will, it is cetana that will.  When we think there is an "I" that will, that "I" is miccha ditthi that arise with cetana that will.  When you interest to learn dhamma to develop understanding, it is not you that "will" to learn dhamma, it is saddha or panna (or arising together) that arise with cetana that will, chanda that interest and viriya that strive


      Kind regards
      Ken O 


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    • Bryan Levman
      Dear Ken, Thanks very much for your explanation, Warm regards, Bryan ________________________________ From: Ken O To:
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 10, 2010
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        Dear Ken,

        Thanks very much for your explanation, Warm regards, Bryan







        ________________________________
        From: Ken O <ashkenn2k@...>
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 2:13:28 PM
        Subject: Re: [Pali] Abhidhamma Series, no 7. Kamma and Result.


        Dear Bryan

        >I know this is an age-old question, but if there is "no self who can determine to do wrong or to do what is right" who is it that awakens to and follows the Eight Fold Noble Path? Did the Buddha not believe in free will? Certainly from reading his teachings, it seems like he did. Please explain,

        There is a will but no one will, it is cetana that will. When we think there is an "I" that will, that "I" is miccha ditthi that arise with cetana that will. When you interest to learn dhamma to develop understanding, it is not you that "will" to learn dhamma, it is saddha or panna (or arising together) that arise with cetana that will, chanda that interest and viriya that strive

        Kind regards
        Ken O

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      • Nina van Gorkom
        Dear Bryan, ... N: Just as an addition: one may think of oneself as following a Path and then one is in the world of conventional truth, sammutti sacca. It is
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 10, 2010
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          Dear Bryan,
          Op 9-apr-2010, om 13:25 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:

          > Or, in a practical, conventional sense, one can follow the path,
          > but in an ultimate sense, there is no atta at all.
          -------
          N: Just as an addition: one may think of oneself as following a Path
          and then one is in the world of conventional truth, sammutti sacca.
          It is a way of thinking. Whereas, in the ultimate sense, only
          specific cetasikas, the Path-factors, arise with the citta and in
          that way the Path is developing, no one develops it. As I see it, the
          ultimate sense is practical, effective.

          -------
          Nina.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ardavarz
          Dear friends, I just would like to share a thought that occurs to me - could we translate anatta in a sense with inanimate ? Etymologically it is more or less
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 10, 2010
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            Dear friends,

            I just would like to share a thought that occurs to me - could we translate anatta in a sense with "inanimate"?
            Etymologically it is more or less equivalent - both anima in Latin and atta in Pali mean "soul", but I am not fully aware of all possible connotations of the word "inanimate" in English. Still I think if one say: "The psyche (or mind) is inanimate", the shock from this seemingly paradoxical (for the common sense) statement could be quite insightful.

            Ardavarz

            --- On Sat, 4/10/10, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

            From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
            Subject: Re: [Pali] Q. Abhidhamma Series, no 7. Kamma and Result.
            To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, April 10, 2010, 5:12 PM







             









            Dear Bryan,

            Op 9-apr-2010, om 13:25 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:



            > Or, in a practical, conventional sense, one can follow the path,

            > but in an ultimate sense, there is no atta at all.

            -------

            N: Just as an addition: one may think of oneself as following a Path

            and then one is in the world of conventional truth, sammutti sacca.

            It is a way of thinking. Whereas, in the ultimate sense, only

            specific cetasikas, the Path-factors, arise with the citta and in

            that way the Path is developing, no one develops it. As I see it, the

            ultimate sense is practical, effective.



            -------

            Nina.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bryan Levman
            Thanks Nina, Bryan ________________________________ From: Nina van Gorkom To: Pali@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, April 10, 2010 10:12:55 AM
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 10, 2010
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              Thanks Nina, Bryan







              ________________________________
              From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
              To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, April 10, 2010 10:12:55 AM
              Subject: Re: [Pali] Q. Abhidhamma Series, no 7. Kamma and Result.


              Dear Bryan,
              Op 9-apr-2010, om 13:25 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:

              > Or, in a practical, conventional sense, one can follow the path,
              > but in an ultimate sense, there is no atta at all.
              -------
              N: Just as an addition: one may think of oneself as following a Path
              and then one is in the world of conventional truth, sammutti sacca.
              It is a way of thinking. Whereas, in the ultimate sense, only
              specific cetasikas, the Path-factors, arise with the citta and in
              that way the Path is developing, no one develops it. As I see it, the
              ultimate sense is practical, effective.

              -------
              Nina.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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            • Nina van Gorkom
              Dear Ardavarz and Richard, Thanks for your contribution. ... N: Ardavarz, You are probably thinking of the Pali nijjhiiva, literally: no life. I understand the
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 11, 2010
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                Dear Ardavarz and Richard,
                Thanks for your contribution.
                Op 10-apr-2010, om 22:09 heeft Ardavarz het volgende geschreven:

                > I just would like to share a thought that occurs to me - could we
                > translate anatta in a sense with "inanimate"?
                > Etymologically it is more or less equivalent - both anima in Latin
                > and atta in Pali mean "soul", but I am not fully aware of all
                > possible connotations of the word "inanimate" in English. Still I
                > think if one say: "The psyche (or mind) is inanimate", the shock
                > from this seemingly paradoxical (for the common sense) statement
                > could be quite insightful.
                -------
                N: Ardavarz, You are probably thinking of the Pali nijjhiiva,
                literally: no life. I understand the difficulty to find an English
                equivalent.
                It is actually absence of a living being.
                I quote from my "Meaning of dhamma: < The following meaning of dhamma
                explained in the Dhammapada-Atthakata, is dhamma as an entity without
                a living soul (nissatta, nijjiva):
                <"Tasmi.m khopana samaye dhammaa honti, khandhaa hontii"ti (dha. sa.
                121)
                Then, at that time dhammas occur, khandhas occur.

                aya.mnissattadhammo naama, nijjiivadhammotipi eso eva.
                this is dhamma without living being (non-substantial), it is also
                merely dhamma without life.
                Tesu imasmi.m .thaane nissattanijjiivadhammo adhippeto.
                As to these, dhamma devoid of a living soul is meant in this case. >

                -------
                The word inanimate can be used for ruupa, materiality. We also take
                ruupa for self, but also ruupa is anattaa.
                -------
                Nina.




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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