Re: [Pali] Re: AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (12/14)
- Hi Jim,
> << Akusala~nca hida.m, bhikkhave, pahiina.m ahitaaya dukkhaayaOh, now I got your point!
> sa.mvatteyya naaha.m eva.m vadeyya.m - 'akusala.m, bhikkhave,
> pajahathaa'ti. >>
> << If, verily, this unwholesome(ness), o monks, which was given up
> would conduce to suffering and harmfulness then I would not say thus: "Give
> up the unwholesome". >>
> Take "If, verily, this unwholesome(ness). . . would conduce to suffering
> harmfulness. . ."
> Here, "unwholesome(ness)" in the above translation is the subject of the
> verb "would conduce" (sa.mvatteyya) which is not logical considering that
> was given up but it would make good sense if the subject were, instead,
> "akusalassa pahaana.m" --- if the giving up of the unwholesome would
> to suffering, etc. One also has to wonder how the given-up unwholesomeness
> per se could conduce to anything since it no longer exists.
This is how I understood it first:
pahiinam. as a ppp is used here as an adjective to describe the akusalam. So
it's just another way of saying the same thing...but instead of your
suggested akusalassa pahanam. which makes absolute sense, here in the text
we have a peculiar way of expressing the same idea but making use of the ppp
adjectively which I would put into a subordinate clause: "if the
unwholesome, which was given up (i.e. "removed", "of which we got rid") ...
would lead to pain and harmfulness, then I would not say thus: "Give it
up"....I admit, the little pahiinam. in this case almost sounds as if it
would best be put into a subordinate clause by itself and the past
participle would actually allow for such a translation.
But of course, you are right, you would rather say: "if the giving up of
unwholesomeness would lead to suffering...I would not recommend giving it
up". It maybe simply is a colloquial expression in Pali to formulate it in
such a pecular way as to say, like the Buddha did: "if unwholesomeness,
after having been given up, would lead to suffering, then I would not
recommend such a step, that is to stop implementing unwholesome things". Yes
logically it sounds strange, but it probably just means "void of
unwholesomeness"... Maybe Oscar von Hinueber has something to say about this
usage of pahiinam. or the ppp in general. He wrote this great Pali Syntax
book which unfortunately I have no access to right now.
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- Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,
thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.
Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.
I will simply put everything together:
"(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"
such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order
hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
for the significance and essence of the meaning
* Paraphrasing ...
"dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".
--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:
I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.
> I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
> here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
> of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
> comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
> "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
> resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
> members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
> gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
> "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).