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Re: [Pali] Re: AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (12/14)

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  • Jim Anderson
    Dear Nina, ... I agree. This is turning out to be a much more difficult passage than I at first thought and my earlier suggestions are now in doubt and
    Message 1 of 97 , Apr 1, 2010
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      Dear Nina,

      > Dear Jim and Yong Peng,
      > Jim, thank you very much for your help, most useful. I was so
      > intrigued by the word abhavissa, especially the 'a'prefix, and saw it
      > in Warder. But analysing a sentence like this it is quite complicated.

      I agree. This is turning out to be a much more difficult passage than I at
      first thought and my earlier suggestions are now in doubt and probably off
      the mark. I don't know much about the usage of the conditional verb and
      don't have Warder at hand. I checked Duroiselle but it doesn't offer much of
      an explanation. The phrases akusala~nca hida.m...pahiiina.m and akusala.m
      pahiina.m have me puzzled. How do they function grammatically with the verb
      'sa.mvatteyya'? I thought of an accusative absolute but not sure.

      Thanks for repeating the text passage.

      Best wishes,
      Jim
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan, thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings,
      Message 97 of 97 , Jun 14, 2010
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        Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,

        thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.

        Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.

        I will simply put everything together:

        dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti
        "(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"

        uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva
        such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order

        hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
        for the significance and essence of the meaning

        bya~njananti
        "bya~njana.m"

        vuccati
        is called

        * Paraphrasing ...

        "dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".


        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.

        > I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
        > here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
        > of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
        > comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
        > "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
        > resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
        > members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
        > gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
        > "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).
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