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Re: [Pali] Brahmaa Sahampati

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  • Bryan Levman
    Hi Thomas & Ardavarz, According to the Monier Williams dictionary, saha is the name of a division of the world, which occurs with lokadhaatu and means the
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 10, 2010
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      Hi Thomas & Ardavarz,

      According to the Monier Williams dictionary, saha is the name of a division of the world, which occurs with lokadhaatu and means "the world inhabited by men". In the Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Dictionary Edgerton gives sahaapati = Paali saha.mpati as meaning "Lord of the sahaa (or saha) lokadhaatu. I have always taken it to mean "Lord of the world", and it is a very common expression in the Buddhist Sanskrit suutras,

      Best, Bryan




      ________________________________
      From: "Магубад Бурджан" <ardavarz@...>
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 5:48:47 PM
      Subject: Re: [Pali] Brahmaa Sahampati


      Dear Thomas,

      You can check the article about Sahampati in Buddhist Dictionary of Pali Proper Names:
      http://www.metta lk/pali-utils/ Pali-Proper- Names/sahampati. htm
      I am not aware of the name "Sahampati" to be found in the Hindu texts - as far as I know in Hinduism there is one Brahmaa for a period of 36000 kalpas. I think that "Sahampati"could be interpreted as "mighty or enduring lord"(Saha-pati) or perhaps "lord of the enduring" (Saha.m-pati) if we take the adjective as substantive in neuter inferring tatta (Skt. tattva, n) - "that-ness" or "real nature" in Hindu philosophy, but this doesn't harmonize with Buddhist worldview. As is noted in the article above Buddhists derive "Sahampati" from the name of the monk Sahaka lived in the time of Kassapa Buddha.
      Also it could be associated with Sahaa which in the later Mahaayaana cosmology is the name of our particular universe (thus Sahampati meaning something like "lord of this world"), but it would be difficult to agree it grammatically, not to speak that this is a later concept not found in the Pali cannon.

      With metta,
      Ardavarz

      --- On Mon, 2/8/10, thomaslaw03 <thomaslaw03@ yahoo.com. au> wrote:

      From: thomaslaw03 <thomaslaw03@ yahoo.com. au>
      Subject: [Pali] Brahmaa Sahampati
      To: Pali@yahoogroups. com
      Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 1:51 AM



      Dear Pali friends,

      I have some questions regarding Brahmaa Sahampati. Hope you can help?

      Does the term, Sahampati, have any meaning? Is it just a individual name? Is this term Sahampati also found in the early Hindu texts? Is this term entirely a Buddhist word created by the early Buddhists?

      Thank you very much.

      Sincerely,

      Thomas Law

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • DC Wijeratna
      Brahmaa sahampati is a brahma according to the Buddha s vision of the world (lokadhaatu). Number of such Brahmaa is mentioned; for example, sana.nkumaara,
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 10, 2010
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        Brahmaa sahampati is a 'brahma' according to the Buddha's vision of the world (lokadhaatu). Number of such Brahmaa is mentioned; for example, sana.nkumaara, baka. They are mere names; of course one can try to give meanings to them. However, they are proper names. Giving meanings to them is not very fruitful.

        PTSD gives the following information about Brahmaa = Brahman:
        Brahmā [cp. Vedic brahmán, m., one who prays or chants hymns, nom. sg.
        Brahmā] 1. the god Brahmā chief of the gods, often represented as the creator of
        the Universe (vasavattī issaro kattā nimmātā) D i.18; iii.30, also called Mahābrahmā (D i.235 sq., 244 sq.; iii.30; It 15.

        Brahmaa is a Vedic God and not related to the 'Brahmaa's' mentioned above. As far as Vedic gods are concerned, they are blind beliefs as far as the Buddha is concerned.

        D. G. D. C. Wijeratna

        _,_._,___




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • thomaslaw03
        Dear Bryan, Ardavarz, Dhivan, Thank you very much for your reply. Do you think, the meaning Lord of the sahaa (or saha) lokadhaatu or Lord of the world can
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 10, 2010
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          Dear Bryan, Ardavarz, Dhivan,

          Thank you very much for your reply.

          Do you think, the meaning "Lord of the sahaa (or saha) lokadhaatu" or "Lord of the world" can also be accepted in the Pali tradition? According to Rhys Davids and Bhikkhu Bodhi of the English translations of the Pāli Brahma Sa.myutta, it seems that Sahampati is just used as a name for a Brahmā.

          Sincerely,

          Thomas Law

          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Levman <bryan.levman@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Thomas & Ardavarz,
          >
          > According to the Monier Williams dictionary, saha is the name of a division of the world, which occurs with lokadhaatu and means "the world inhabited by men". In the Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Dictionary Edgerton gives sahaapati = Paali saha.mpati as meaning "Lord of the sahaa (or saha) lokadhaatu. I have always taken it to mean "Lord of the world", and it is a very common expression in the Buddhist Sanskrit suutras,
          >
          > Best, Bryan
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: "Магубад Ð`урджан" <ardavarz@...>
          > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 5:48:47 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Pali] Brahmaa Sahampati
          >
          >
          > Dear Thomas,
          >
          > You can check the article about Sahampati in Buddhist Dictionary of Pali Proper Names:
          > http://www.metta lk/pali-utils/ Pali-Proper- Names/sahampati. htm
          > I am not aware of the name "Sahampati" to be found in the Hindu texts - as far as I know in Hinduism there is one Brahmaa for a period of 36000 kalpas. I think that "Sahampati"could be interpreted as "mighty or enduring lord"(Saha-pati) or perhaps "lord of the enduring" (Saha.m-pati) if we take the adjective as substantive in neuter inferring tatta (Skt. tattva, n) - "that-ness" or "real nature" in Hindu philosophy, but this doesn't harmonize with Buddhist worldview. As is noted in the article above Buddhists derive "Sahampati" from the name of the monk Sahaka lived in the time of Kassapa Buddha.
          > Also it could be associated with Sahaa which in the later Mahaayaana cosmology is the name of our particular universe (thus Sahampati meaning something like "lord of this world"), but it would be difficult to agree it grammatically, not to speak that this is a later concept not found in the Pali cannon.
          >
          > With metta,
          > Ardavarz
          >
          > --- On Mon, 2/8/10, thomaslaw03 <thomaslaw03@ yahoo.com. au> wrote:
          >
          > From: thomaslaw03 <thomaslaw03@ yahoo.com. au>
          > Subject: [Pali] Brahmaa Sahampati
          > To: Pali@yahoogroups. com
          > Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 1:51 AM
          >
          >
          >
          > Dear Pali friends,
          >
          > I have some questions regarding Brahmaa Sahampati. Hope you can help?
          >
          > Does the term, Sahampati, have any meaning? Is it just a individual name? Is this term Sahampati also found in the early Hindu texts? Is this term entirely a Buddhist word created by the early Buddhists?
          >
          > Thank you very much.
          >
          > Sincerely,
          >
          > Thomas Law
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________________________
          > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Bryan Levman
          Hi Thomas, Lord of the Saha world is how I ve always understood it per Edgerton, and Edgerton is an authority on Buddhist Prakrits (of which Pāli is one),
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 12, 2010
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            Hi Thomas,

            "Lord of the Saha world" is how I've always understood it per Edgerton, and Edgerton is an authority on Buddhist Prakrits (of which Pāli is one), Metta, Bryan




            ________________________________
            From: thomaslaw03 <thomaslaw03@...>
            To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, February 11, 2010 12:49:04 AM
            Subject: [Pali] Re: Brahmaa Sahampati


            Dear Bryan, Ardavarz, Dhivan,

            Thank you very much for your reply.

            Do you think, the meaning "Lord of the sahaa (or saha) lokadhaatu" or "Lord of the world" can also be accepted in the Pali tradition? According to Rhys Davids and Bhikkhu Bodhi of the English translations of the Pāli Brahma Sa.myutta, it seems that Sahampati is just used as a name for a Brahmā.

            Sincerely,

            Thomas Law

            --- In Pali@yahoogroups. com, Bryan Levman <bryan.levman@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Thomas & Ardavarz,
            >
            > According to the Monier Williams dictionary, saha is the name of a division of the world, which occurs with lokadhaatu and means "the world inhabited by men". In the Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Dictionary Edgerton gives sahaapati = Paali saha.mpati as meaning "Lord of the sahaa (or saha) lokadhaatu. I have always taken it to mean "Lord of the world", and it is a very common expression in the Buddhist Sanskrit suutras,
            >
            > Best, Bryan
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ____________ _________ _________ __
            > From: "Магубад Ð`урджан" <ardavarz@.. .>
            > To: Pali@yahoogroups. com
            > Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 5:48:47 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Pali] Brahmaa Sahampati
            >
            >
            > Dear Thomas,
            >
            > You can check the article about Sahampati in Buddhist Dictionary of Pali Proper Names:
            > http://www.metta. lk/pali-utils/ Pali-Proper- Names/sahampati. htm
            > I am not aware of the name "Sahampati" to be found in the Hindu texts - as far as I know in Hinduism there is one Brahmaa for a period of 36000 kalpas. I think that "Sahampati"could be interpreted as "mighty or enduring lord"(Saha-pati) or perhaps "lord of the enduring" (Saha.m-pati) if we take the adjective as substantive in neuter inferring tatta (Skt. tattva, n) - "that-ness" or "real nature" in Hindu philosophy, but this doesn't harmonize with Buddhist worldview. As is noted in the article above Buddhists derive "Sahampati" from the name of the monk Sahaka lived in the time of Kassapa Buddha.
            > Also it could be associated with Sahaa which in the later Mahaayaana cosmology is the name of our particular universe (thus Sahampati meaning something like "lord of this world"), but it would be difficult to agree it grammatically, not to speak that this is a later concept not found in the Pali cannon.
            >
            > With metta,
            > Ardavarz
            >
            > --- On Mon, 2/8/10, thomaslaw03 <thomaslaw03@ yahoo.com. au> wrote:
            >
            > From: thomaslaw03 <thomaslaw03@ yahoo.com. au>
            > Subject: [Pali] Brahmaa Sahampati
            > To: Pali@yahoogroups. com
            > Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 1:51 AM
            >
            >
            >
            > Dear Pali friends,
            >
            > I have some questions regarding Brahmaa Sahampati. Hope you can help?
            >
            > Does the term, Sahampati, have any meaning? Is it just a individual name? Is this term Sahampati also found in the early Hindu texts? Is this term entirely a Buddhist word created by the early Buddhists?
            >
            > Thank you very much.
            >
            > Sincerely,
            >
            > Thomas Law
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
            > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer/
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • thomaslaw03
            Dear Bryan, Wijeratna, Thank you very much for your reply. I now will consider that the term Sahampati (or Sahaa.mpati) is used in both ways, Lord of the Saha
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 13, 2010
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              Dear Bryan, Wijeratna,

              Thank you very much for your reply.

              I now will consider that the term Sahampati (or Sahaa.mpati) is used in both ways, Lord of the Saha world and a name for an individual Brahmaa who is the most senior of Brahmaas in the Brahmaa world. I hope this is OK for all Buddhist traditions.

              Regards,

              Thomas Law
            • Ong Yong Peng
              Dear Thomas and friends, if I recall correctly, there was already previous discussion on this topic. I have not read much about Sahampati, so was not able to
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 14, 2010
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                Dear Thomas and friends,

                if I recall correctly, there was already previous discussion on this topic. I have not read much about Sahampati, so was not able to contribute to the discussion. I like to thank Thomas for the question, and everyone who has helped to provide an answer. I have learned from the discussion too.

                Thomas, regardless of the meaning of the name, and regardless of how a particular heavenly "character" is regarded in any Buddhist tradition, in the Buddhist practice, Buddhists respect all heavenly beings, but do not generally associate with any.

                metta,
                Yong Peng.


                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, thomaslaw03 wrote:

                I now will consider that the term Sahampati (or Sahaa.mpati) is used in both ways, Lord of the Saha world and a name for an individual Brahmaa who is the most senior of Brahmaas in the Brahmaa world. I hope this is OK for all Buddhist traditions.
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