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Semi-automated Pali translation...

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  • Lennart Lopin
    Hi Frank, Please find below a proof of concept-type program based on your idea of using a dictionary search for (semi)automated translation. This is a very
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 7, 2010
      Hi Frank,

      Please find below a proof of concept-type program based on your idea of
      using a dictionary search for (semi)automated translation.
      This is a very crude example. I added a few screenshots so that you can see
      what it does.
      If you like to try it with other dictionaries, I added a a few more to the
      mix. Unfortunately it does not break compounds and so the results are better
      for sutta texts than commentaries. One could do much more with a tool like
      this, but the Tipitaka is just a limited amount of text and hopefully, with
      advances in bilingual corpora and machine translation, I guess pretty soon
      we will get quick Google translations for the Tipitaka as well [=> does not
      mean we will understand it any better without applying it :-) ]

      Download the program here:

      [download <http://www.nibbanam.com/pali_language_tools.html#ptrans>] (at the
      bottom of the page)

      A screenshot can be found here
      [link<http://www.nibbanam.com/AutoTranslationPOC-2.jpg>
      ]

      Metta,

      Lennart

      PS: Thanks go to frank for the idea and Frank Snow for CST4's dictionary.


      On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:47 PM, frank <fcckuan@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > I just noticed today that DPR has the english to pali dictionary as
      > well. i had been using a website for that, now I know the easier way.
      > I just looked up kaama in DPR, it's a massive entry, much more info than
      > CST4's dictionary.
      >
      > -frank
      >
      >
      > On 2/7/2010 8:36 AM, frank wrote:
      > > Hi Ria,
      > > DPR is a great tool. I like how it can access several pali
      > > dictionaries, and tries to break down compounds, often with success.
      > > The limitation is the lookup entry takes velthius. With CST4 I can
      > > mark, cut, paste unicodr pali script from the web and local digital
      > > copies of the canon and drop it right into the search window (of
      > > cst4). Otherwise, I would use DPR more.
      > >
      > >
      > > -fk
      > >
      > > On 2/6/2010 2:29 AM, grasje wrote:
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Hi Frank,
      > >>
      > >> In the Digital pali Reader
      > >> http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/
      > >> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/> (new version
      > >> available!) this funcion is automated.
      > >>
      > >> Just click on a word in the text and in the grey line between the
      > >> reading window and the dictionary window long words are broken down
      > >> into possible dictionary entries.
      > >>
      > >> Thus on clicking bhiyyobhaavaaya you get on the left:
      > >> bhiyyo- bh�?v�?ya
      > >>
      > >> and on the right
      > >>
      > >> bhiyyo: exceedingly; more; in a higher degree; repeatedly. (ind.)
      > >> bh�?va: condition; nature; becoming. (m.)
      > >>
      > >> And in the dictionary window below the full PED-translation of
      > >> Bh�?va. You can easily paste bhiyyo into the search field to get the
      > >> full PED translation of bhiyyo as well.
      > >>
      > >> The DPR is really an amazing piece of work.
      > >>
      > >> Translating a sentence becomes a matter of clicking the words one
      > >> after another.It almost seems easy to translate a sutta!
      > >>
      > >> Kind regards,
      > >>
      > >> Ria Glas
      > >>
      > >> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
      > Pali%40yahoogroups.com <Pali%2540yahoogroups.com>>, frank
      > >> <fcckuan@...> wrote:
      > >> >
      > >> > for you other Pali beginners out there, I learned how to use an
      > >> > interesting feature in CST4 to sort of make it translate a sentence
      > >> at a
      > >> > time.
      > >> >
      > >> > I just mark and copy a line of pali text, either from CST4 suttas or
      > >> > worldtipitaka.org (or any site showing unicode compliant pali),
      > >> paste it
      > >> > into CST4's dictionary search window. Because it does partial
      > >> matching,
      > >> > and it only tries to show the possible definitions one word at a time
      > >> > (starting from left), I just put the cursor to the far left of the
      > >> > sentence, hold down the delete key to delete one character (then word)
      > >> > at a time, and the partial matching of the dictionary will usually
      > >> do a
      > >> > pretty good job of finding a usable definition as I pass through each
      > >> > word until I get to the one I want.
      > >> >
      > >> > Before, I was marking, copying, pasting one single word at a time, and
      > >> > then realized by grabbing a whole sentence, or 2 or 3 words at a time
      > >> > and dropping it into the dictionary, it gets much speedier results. I
      > >> > tried a paragraph to test the limits, but it does seem to be
      > >> limited to
      > >> > a certain number of characters in the dictionary search line.
      > >> >
      > >> > This has become my dictionary of choice because of its ability to read
      > >> > cut and pasted unicode pali, instead of only taking velthius input.
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • frank
      Wow! Fantastic work Lennart. Just installed and tested a few paragraphs, looking good so far. I ll do some heavy testing on it...It would have taken me several
      Message 2 of 2 , Feb 8, 2010
        Wow! Fantastic work Lennart. Just installed and tested a few paragraphs,
        looking good so far. I'll do some heavy testing on it...It would have
        taken me several months to figure out how to code what you did in a few
        days. Thanks!

        -Frank



        On 2/7/2010 8:50 PM, Lennart Lopin wrote:
        > Hi Frank,
        >
        > Please find below a proof of concept-type program based on your idea of
        > using a dictionary search for (semi)automated translation.
        > This is a very crude example. I added a few screenshots so that you can see
        > what it does.
        > If you like to try it with other dictionaries, I added a a few more to the
        > mix. Unfortunately it does not break compounds and so the results are better
        > for sutta texts than commentaries. One could do much more with a tool like
        > this, but the Tipitaka is just a limited amount of text and hopefully, with
        > advances in bilingual corpora and machine translation, I guess pretty soon
        > we will get quick Google translations for the Tipitaka as well [=> does not
        > mean we will understand it any better without applying it :-) ]
        >
        > Download the program here:
        >
        > [download<http://www.nibbanam.com/pali_language_tools.html#ptrans>] (at the
        > bottom of the page)
        >
        > A screenshot can be found here
        > [link<http://www.nibbanam.com/AutoTranslationPOC-2.jpg>
        > ]
        >
        > Metta,
        >
        > Lennart
        >
        > PS: Thanks go to frank for the idea and Frank Snow for CST4's dictionary.
        >
        >
        > On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:47 PM, frank<fcckuan@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >>
        >> I just noticed today that DPR has the english to pali dictionary as
        >> well. i had been using a website for that, now I know the easier way.
        >> I just looked up kaama in DPR, it's a massive entry, much more info than
        >> CST4's dictionary.
        >>
        >> -frank
        >>
        >>
        >> On 2/7/2010 8:36 AM, frank wrote:
        >>
        >>> Hi Ria,
        >>> DPR is a great tool. I like how it can access several pali
        >>> dictionaries, and tries to break down compounds, often with success.
        >>> The limitation is the lookup entry takes velthius. With CST4 I can
        >>> mark, cut, paste unicodr pali script from the web and local digital
        >>> copies of the canon and drop it right into the search window (of
        >>> cst4). Otherwise, I would use DPR more.
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> -fk
        >>>
        >>> On 2/6/2010 2:29 AM, grasje wrote:
        >>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> Hi Frank,
        >>>>
        >>>> In the Digital pali Reader
        >>>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/
        >>>> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/> (new version
        >>>> available!) this funcion is automated.
        >>>>
        >>>> Just click on a word in the text and in the grey line between the
        >>>> reading window and the dictionary window long words are broken down
        >>>> into possible dictionary entries.
        >>>>
        >>>> Thus on clicking bhiyyobhaavaaya you get on the left:
        >>>> bhiyyo- bhÄ?vÄ?ya
        >>>>
        >>>> and on the right
        >>>>
        >>>> bhiyyo: exceedingly; more; in a higher degree; repeatedly. (ind.)
        >>>> bhÄ?va: condition; nature; becoming. (m.)
        >>>>
        >>>> And in the dictionary window below the full PED-translation of
        >>>> BhÄ?va. You can easily paste bhiyyo into the search field to get the
        >>>> full PED translation of bhiyyo as well.
        >>>>
        >>>> The DPR is really an amazing piece of work.
        >>>>
        >>>> Translating a sentence becomes a matter of clicking the words one
        >>>> after another.It almost seems easy to translate a sutta!
        >>>>
        >>>> Kind regards,
        >>>>
        >>>> Ria Glas
        >>>>
        >>>> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com<Pali%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
        >>>>
        >> Pali%40yahoogroups.com<Pali%2540yahoogroups.com>>, frank
        >>
        >>>> <fcckuan@...> wrote:
        >>>>
        >>>>> for you other Pali beginners out there, I learned how to use an
        >>>>> interesting feature in CST4 to sort of make it translate a sentence
        >>>>>
        >>>> at a
        >>>>
        >>>>> time.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> I just mark and copy a line of pali text, either from CST4 suttas or
        >>>>> worldtipitaka.org (or any site showing unicode compliant pali),
        >>>>>
        >>>> paste it
        >>>>
        >>>>> into CST4's dictionary search window. Because it does partial
        >>>>>
        >>>> matching,
        >>>>
        >>>>> and it only tries to show the possible definitions one word at a time
        >>>>> (starting from left), I just put the cursor to the far left of the
        >>>>> sentence, hold down the delete key to delete one character (then word)
        >>>>> at a time, and the partial matching of the dictionary will usually
        >>>>>
        >>>> do a
        >>>>
        >>>>> pretty good job of finding a usable definition as I pass through each
        >>>>> word until I get to the one I want.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Before, I was marking, copying, pasting one single word at a time, and
        >>>>> then realized by grabbing a whole sentence, or 2 or 3 words at a time
        >>>>> and dropping it into the dictionary, it gets much speedier results. I
        >>>>> tried a paragraph to test the limits, but it does seem to be
        >>>>>
        >>>> limited to
        >>>>
        >>>>> a certain number of characters in the dictionary search line.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> This has become my dictionary of choice because of its ability to read
        >>>>> cut and pasted unicode pali, instead of only taking velthius input.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
        > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
        > [Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
        > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
        > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
        > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
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